MaxPreps Preseason top 25

[HurricaneNick]

15 minutes ago, SeaShells21 said:

 

Switch the coaching staffs between:

 

2022 St. John Bosco w/ Lee Wiginton staff vs. Allen w/ Jason Negro coaching staff

2021 Duncanville w/ Bruce Rollinson coaching staff  vs.  Mater Dei w/ Samples coaching staff.

2020 IMG Academy w/ Reginald Samples coaching staff vs. Duncanville with Billy Miller coaching staff

 

Do the bold teams win these matchups? I would just like to hear what you guys think about this.

No, you have to have the talent. Nick Saban is consistently called the greatest of all time. I agree. He also always had the best talent. You can certainly have poor coaches that don't put the talent in places to be successful. You can call all the right plays, if the players don't execute them it doesn’t matter. 

[Ga96]

32 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

I’ve already given the data and it’s accurate, it’s right off the 24/7 site. Talent absolutely was a major factor, depth at all levels. DV was overwhelmed, not unlike any other programs that faced MD for the first time. I think they learned from that as shortly samples brought in a new OC (brought him 2 state titles) 

MD since 2018 has only lost to 1 program in the entire country…1!

MD is not a garden variety program, just elite from coaching alone. Its more than coaching, they have a stronghold on talent too.  

 

 

Not to mention the history. You can see when md started recruiting and the jump in wins. They went from bottom of the state to elite thanks to it.

[THEOC89]

2 hours ago, SeaShells21 said:

Switch coaching staffs between:

2022 St. John Bosco w/ Lee Wiginton staff vs. Allen w/ Jason Negro coaching staff

2021 Duncanville w/ Bruce Rollinson coaching staff  vs.  Mater Dei w/ Samples coaching staff.

2020 IMG Academy w/ Reginald Samples coaching staff vs. Duncanville with Billy Miller coaching staff

The Bold will win because of their coaching?

HA!…. I agree!…. You could have Andy Reid, Kyle Shannahan and Bill Belecheck coaching those TX teams in those games and the score would be no different…. 🤣

[HurricaneNick]

21 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Being at home has nothing to do with it when there’s a wide gap in talent. 

a good ex. of program maturation is Cen10.  Centennial is a great public school program, they’re 0-5/6 v MD going back to ‘18.  Those first two losses were blowouts similar to DV.(2018/20219)  They have learned and grown as a program and closed the gap some. 

DV has grown too, offense is not the same it was a few years ago. 

I think MD having to travel 2,000 miles mattered a little bit.  I do agree that DV has steadily progressed since that game. Thats scary for Texas because that 2021-22 team was no joke. 

[HurricaneNick]

1 minute ago, Ga96 said:

Not to mention the history. You can see when md started recruiting and the jump in wins. They went from bottom of the state to elite thanks to it.

If you knew anything about anything you would know Mater Dei was never a team at the bottom of the state. 1 losing season in 40 years. 1. 

[Horsefly]

18 minutes ago, HurricaneNick said:

I think MD having to travel 2,000 miles mattered a little bit.  I do agree that DV has steadily progressed since that game. Thats scary for Texas because that 2021-22 team was no joke. 

It mattered some. 

The 21-22 team relied a lot on the run portion of the rpo because JJ was good at it when he played but the kids that came behind him not so much.  They stalled in ‘20 v SLC and in ‘21 in the title game.

[HurricaneNick]

19 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

It mattered some. 

The 21-22 team relied a lot on the run portion of the rpo because JJ was good at it when he played but the kids that came behind him not so much.  They stalled in ‘20 v SLC and in ‘21 in the title game.

3 peat seems inevitable (from an outsiders perspective) Keelon and Dakorien are without a doubt the top QB/WR duo in the country. I like DV to run the table with their schedule.

[SeaShells21]

35 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

HA!…. I agree!…. You could have Andy Reid, Kyle Shannahan and Bill Belecheck coaching those TX teams in those games and the score would be no different…. 🤣

DeflateGate, SpyGate, LockTheGate . . . 😌 He might find a way to cheat 

[Horsefly]

15 minutes ago, HurricaneNick said:

3 peat seems inevitable (from an outsiders perspective) Keelon and Dakorien are without a doubt the top QB/WR duo in the country. I like DV to run the table with their schedule.

Yes they could, front runner for sure. Their district game v Desoto will be good and north shore has loaded their team. They actually bring back the most starters (14) along with a few key move ins 

[covercorner]

10 hours ago, FbDad1986 said:

Theses numbers seem to be a little inflated to say the least lol

Yes they are. While Centennial will be good no doubt, the weakness will be at LB, with no returners, and no promising up and comers at this point. Thats gonna be interesting to watch for.  And they don't have 15 so called rated dudes. I would say have half that number at best. With QB Longstreet, OL Drew Hill, OL Daniel Shipp, CB Larue Zamanora, WR Tavian McNair, WR Cory Butler and new addition DB Kuran Jabari being the top guys.. all other positions except LB, RB would be consider solid, but no-where near game changers. 

[Omaha Vol]

1 hour ago, SeaShells21 said:

2008:

Cypress Bay (Fl.) 6 - Katy 31

2009:

Cypress Bay (Fl.) 0 - S.T. Aquinas 36

2010:

Skyline 3  -  S.T. Aquinas (Fl.) 31  

Skyline (Tx.) 0 - DeSoto 38

 

2010:

Plant (Fl.) 17 - Abilene (Tx.) 27

Plant (Fl.) 7 - St. Thomas Aquinas 29

 

2014:

IMG Academy 69 - Prestonwood (Tx.) 36

Bishop Dunne (Tx.) 42 - Prestonwood 10

 

2015:

Euless Trinity 26 - De La Salle 21

Euless Trinity 42 - North Shore 32

Cen10nial 21 - De La Salle 28

 

2015:

Allen (Tx.) 56 - Viera 20

St. Thomas Aquinas 41 - Viera 10

2015:

DeSoto 29 - IMG Academy 47

DeSoto 26 - Arlington Martin (Tx.) 46

 

2019:

Duncanville 35 - St John’s 14

IMG Academy 35 - St. John’s 20

Duncanville 17 - North Shore 34 [2019]

2020:

Duncanville 14 - IMG Academy 41

 

2021:

Westfield (TX) 27 - North Shore 21

Duncanville 10 - North Shore 17 [9 other teams that North Shore played scored more than Duncanville did.]

C.E. King (TX) 0 - North Shore 17

Duncanville 3 - Mater Dei 45 
 

Allen 20 vs. Atascocita 41 [2021]

Allen 14 vs. Carroll 47 [2021] 1:50

2022:

Allen 14 - St John Bosco 52

Allen 7 - Guyer (Tx.) 49 [End of 3rd]

 

DeSoto 7 - St. Frances 47

DeSoto 10 - Duncanville 41 [4:36 | 4th]

Bishop Gorman 56 - Liberty 14

Atascocita 45 - Liberty (NV.) 8

Pittsburg (CA.) 30 - Liberty 2

 

2023:

East St. Louis 13 - St. Frances 7

East St. Louis 13 - Atascocita 43

 

Is there really that much difference between the coaching at power privates and Texas publics?

With coaching, yes. However, as a lot of Cali posters have said, you still need the talent. MD and SJB have monopolized the L.A. metro. That, along with better coaching, is the reason they are such juggernauts. (Imagine if NYC got serious about football!!). 
 

TX has plenty of talent. They just haven’t monopolized the recruiting like the Monarchs and Braves have. Plus, they aren’t as disciplined as the Trinity schools. If those TX oil barons decided to do it they would surely have the resources to set up football factories like MD and SJB. I just see states like TX (and GA) as having a fanbase that is against that. 
 

Just so everyone knows I am a purist when it comes to this. I can’t stand it when privates recruit like this or when some counties allow for open zone enrollment. When I played in high school you had to live in the jurisdiction of said school. Hell, players even had to sit out a year if they transferred. I went through this with Brentwood Academy (Nashville) back in the mid 80s- early 90s before the TSSAA cracked down on the private powers and made them play their own league for playoffs. 

[THEOC89]

1 hour ago, SeaShells21 said:

DeflateGate, SpyGate, LockTheGate . . . 😌 He might find a way to cheat 

Good Point!….🤣

[CaliNorth]

3 hours ago, HurricaneNick said:

It should have been closer yes, especially at home, but they're right that MD was just more talented.

MD obviously performed better . I'm just curious if you compare the players from both teams, and that goes for the whole state of texas, how many are starring at the next level in college .  I don't see a whole lot of impact players from MD at the next level when considering how dominant they have been at the high school level . College coaches don't necessarily look at the score of a game and who won when determining if a said player has all the ingredients for the college level . I know DLS many years would play a team like Pitt, and they were more talented and had a lot more D-1 recruits , But DLS would beat them by 40 . The only thing I could see was how much better coached and mentally prepared they were than the other team . Next level all of that changes . You pointing out about SFA was correct . It took them almost half the season to start showing up to their potential. Problem for them  was all the big boys were on the latter part of their schedule . I think at the high school level coaching may be the most important component  of it all when talent is relatively in the same ball park. 

[Omaha Vol]

5 hours ago, CaliNorth said:

I think at the high school level coaching may be the most important component  of it all when talent is relatively in the same ball park. 

Tell that to your gal pal Seashells....

[Bodysurf]

11 hours ago, Ga96 said:

Not to mention the history. You can see when md started recruiting and the jump in wins. They went from bottom of the state to elite thanks to it.

Tell me you know nothing about Mater Dei football without telling me.

[Horsefly]

4 hours ago, Omaha Vol said:

Tell that to your gal pal Seashells....

The operative words are “when talent is relatively in the same ballpark” The counterpoints have been that the talent was NOT relatively in the same ballpark 

anyways, the points have been twisted into something else, carry on

[badrouter]

On 7/14/2024 at 7:58 PM, MD87 said:

Ah, I stand corrected on that.  Cen10 didn't travel well (to put it mildly!) last season, so maybe that's a factor, but Cen10 has FIFTEEN dudes 3-star or better in the jr and sr classes (inc, at the most important position, a 5-star who's the #4 QB in the nation), whereas Liberty only has FOUR.  I just don't see Liberty winning that.  

The above is you, but so is this: "When MD slaughtered DVille a couple years ago, DVille had something like 15 3-5 star players in just the junior and senior classes combined.  No way in hell that 45-3 on their home field (after 3 quarters, at that!) should have happened with that loaded roster.  The play calling was abysmal and the discipline was terrible.  That's how you get 45-3 after 3."

Counting stars from players listed in 247sports is not a very good way of assessing team quality. In addition to things you mention like play-calling and discipline, there's also overall game-planning and preparation, which is of course done by coaches and players. There's often a HUGE disparity in game preparation between teams. Other often-overlooked factors are both the quality of the "zero-star" players and how well all of the players fit together to make a solid overall unit.

The greatest disparity between players is among "zero-star" players. This is an area where some schools lose a lot more ground than people realize. Some private schools can offer scholarships to a dozen awesome "ballers" but can't afford to fill out a complete starting lineup with these players. So, they end up with some very, very good boys whose parents pay full tuition but who are badly out of place against zero-stars from the local inner-city team "trying to make it out". 

A school may have four major DL prospects starting, but, if they're all of the taller, thinner "edge rusher" prototype, the DL may not win at the LOS against a power-run oriented offense with nasty 5'11" pulling guards who know how to put taller weaker guys on their asses. A team with six D1 DBs and no D-line is probably not going to be as good on defense as a team with fewer D1 players but quality at all 11 positions. Etc.

[HurricaneNick]

12 hours ago, CaliNorth said:

MD obviously performed better . I'm just curious if you compare the players from both teams, and that goes for the whole state of texas, how many are starring at the next level in college .  I don't see a whole lot of impact players from MD at the next level when considering how dominant they have been at the high school level . College coaches don't necessarily look at the score of a game and who won when determining if a said player has all the ingredients for the college level . I know DLS many years would play a team like Pitt, and they were more talented and had a lot more D-1 recruits , But DLS would beat them by 40 . The only thing I could see was how much better coached and mentally prepared they were than the other team . Next level all of that changes . You pointing out about SFA was correct . It took them almost half the season to start showing up to their potential. Problem for them  was all the big boys were on the latter part of their schedule . I think at the high school level coaching may be the most important component  of it all when talent is relatively in the same ball park. 

MD has many kids killing it at the college level right now. Both of Alabamas starting corners are Mater Dei kids. Coaching is certainly important, I absolutely agree with you. You still need the talent. You don’t have to be as “loaded” but you need kids that can play and aren’t afraid to make the plays. 

Also, the star ratings are not the gospel either. It’s not rocket science to rank the freaks at the top of the list but a lot of those rankings are projections. There was a 6’5 300 lb DT on the MD team last year that finished at a top 35 overall recruit in the country but played back up to a 6’0 underclassmen that has maybe the most violent hands and feet I’ve seen out of a DT his size. One kid is 6’5 so he got the 5 stars and one kid isn’t so he is unranked. MD will always have those kinds of kids. I think IMG and maybe St Frances are the only schools where every single kid is a division one signee. Plenty of MD starters since this run started in 2016 have gone on to play JUCO, not play college ball at all. And they have been damn good players.

[MD87]

On 7/15/2024 at 12:31 AM, Omaha Vol said:

Great post!

Thanks 

 

On 7/15/2024 at 12:31 AM, Omaha Vol said:

Imagine if STA, MC, AHP and C-M combined into one team (or even two). They would throttle IMG, MD, SJB and BG. 

IMG had five 5-stars on the 2019 juggernaut (and God knows how many 4-stars) and no throttling of MD occurred.  At the end of the day, it’s 11 on 11 and if MD and SJB did get all of best players (and they don’t, as I just demonstrated) in CA, the talent level would only be slightly less vis a vis two FL powers having the same situation.  Again, it all comes down to coaching and discipline, and I would like MD’s and SJB’s chances against any team of 15-18 year olds, anywhere, any time. 

[CaliNorth]

7 hours ago, HurricaneNick said:

MD has many kids killing it at the college level right now. Both of Alabamas starting corners are Mater Dei kids. Coaching is certainly important, I absolutely agree with you. You still need the talent. You don’t have to be as “loaded” but you need kids that can play and aren’t afraid to make the plays. 

Also, the star ratings are not the gospel either. It’s not rocket science to rank the freaks at the top of the list but a lot of those rankings are projections. There was a 6’5 300 lb DT on the MD team last year that finished at a top 35 overall recruit in the country but played back up to a 6’0 underclassmen that has maybe the most violent hands and feet I’ve seen out of a DT his size. One kid is 6’5 so he got the 5 stars and one kid isn’t so he is unranked. MD will always have those kinds of kids. I think IMG and maybe St Frances are the only schools where every single kid is a division one signee. Plenty of MD starters since this run started in 2016 have gone on to play JUCO, not play college ball at all. And they have been damn good players.

MD is a well oiled machine, with a lot of talent for sure . But it is that mind set across all aspects of the program that demands excellence , Hard to get that at publix . Cen10 with Logan is exceptional . MC in FLA . This will be an interesting year for MD because now their new head coach is known for underperforming with some of the most talented teams in the country . Rollison was legendary and the guy who just left carried on the tradition. I wonder if Lara will screw things up.

[CaliNorth]

On 7/15/2024 at 5:25 PM, Horsefly said:

Being at home has nothing to do with it when there’s a wide gap in talent. 

a good ex. of program maturation is Cen10.  Centennial is a great public school program, they’re 0-5/6 v MD going back to ‘18.  Those first two losses were blowouts similar to DV.(2018/20219)  They have learned and grown as a program and closed the gap some. 

DV has grown too, offense is not the same it was a few years ago. 

Cen10 has beaten Bosco 3 times in socal playoffs since 2014 . Also lost to IMG in 2016 after a last minute comeback by IMG

[Horsefly]

10 minutes ago, CaliNorth said:

Cen10 has beaten Bosco 3 times in socal playoffs since 2014 . Also lost to IMG in 2016 after a last minute comeback by IMG

They beat Bosco in ‘14 and ‘15 (before Bosco went super turbo on talent) what was the 3d win since 2014? 

[SeaShells21]

22 hours ago, Omaha Vol said:

With coaching, yes. However, as a lot of Cali posters have said, you still need the talent. MD and SJB have monopolized the L.A. metro. That, along with better coaching, is the reason they are such juggernauts. (Imagine if NYC got serious about football!!). 
 

TX has plenty of talent. They just haven’t monopolized the recruiting like the Monarchs and Braves have. Plus, they aren’t as disciplined as the Trinity schools. If those TX oil barons decided to do it they would surely have the resources to set up football factories like MD and SJB. I just see states like TX (and GA) as having a fanbase that is against that. 
 

Just so everyone knows I am a purist when it comes to this. I can’t stand it when privates recruit like this or when some counties allow for open zone enrollment. When I played in high school you had to live in the jurisdiction of said school. Hell, players even had to sit out a year if they transferred. I went through this with Brentwood Academy (Nashville) back in the mid 80s- early 90s before the TSSAA cracked down on the private powers and made them play their own league for playoffs. 

The L.A. Metro is 4,850 square miles.

Orange County is 792 square miles.

Santa Ana Unified School District is 24 square miles.

If it’s not too much trouble, Would one of you like to clarify the boundaries of which Mater Dei and St. John Bosco can find their rosters? I have now heard all three. @Omaha Vol @HurricaneNick @CaliNorth @MD87 @dntn31 😌

[HurricaneNick]

53 minutes ago, CaliNorth said:

MD is a well oiled machine, with a lot of talent for sure . But it is that mind set across all aspects of the program that demands excellence , Hard to get that at publix . Cen10 with Logan is exceptional . MC in FLA . This will be an interesting year for MD because now their new head coach is known for underperforming with some of the most talented teams in the country . Rollison was legendary and the guy who just left carried on the tradition. I wonder if Lara will screw things up.

Lara has kept the staff in place outside of the DC stepping down. New DC was already within the program. Rob Thomas former UCLA linebacker. Pretty tough to mess this one up. He needs to be the CEO and let his coaches coach. Rollo made the important decisions throughout the game but let his coaches do their thing.

[HurricaneNick]

22 minutes ago, SeaShells21 said:

The L.A. Metro is 4,850 square miles.

Orange County is 792 square miles.

Santa Ana Unified School District is 24 square miles.

If it’s not too much trouble, Would one of you like to clarify the boundaries of which Mater Dei and St. John Bosco can find their rosters? I have now heard all three. @Omaha Vol @HurricaneNick @CaliNorth @MD87 @dntn31 😌

You know this answer. It doesn’t matter because if a staff wants a kid to play there they're going to figure it out 99% of the time. Anywhere in the country. This homegrown only notion is foolish.  Kids should go wherever they want to go. It’s high school football. It’s just not that serious. 

Speaking of public schools - Some kids live in terrible areas where their home schools are underfunded, have terrible structure, poor athletics, etc. are we going to be upset if Samples or Logan or whoever figures out a way to get him into school? If any grown man has an issue with that they need to re-evaluate some things. 

When I watched SLC and HP at Jerry World the night before the MD game, an SLC dad was open about how important the transfers were for SLC to get to the state title game a year before. Those kids got to go to school in Southlake, train inside incredible facilities, and have coach Dodge as a reference in their back pocket for the rest of their lives. No brainer.