Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Just now, ron169 said: You may not know this, but drug addicts do stupid shit. The other day I met a meth head that was having a picnic on her grandfathers grave in the rain, while listening to music, reading a bible, smoking a cigarette, and eating peanut butter... Simultaneously. Not a big leap from that to attacking a cop, pulling a gun on a store clerk etc. Actually that is a big leap. But there seems to be nothing you won't do to justify police shootings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, LOSer said: Actually that is a big leap. But there seems to be nothing you won't do to justify police shootings. I don't need to justify them. They are either self defense or murder. Each one is separate and should be judged on the circumstances for that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 11 hours ago, dan in daytona said: Cat, I bet that terrified officer was holding his weapon the whole time. Can you imagine the look on his partner's face when the gun goes off and the bullet whizzes by. WTF !!!! Not a situation I would ever want to be in. Now why does the cop that shot her refuse to be interviewed? Don't they have to give a statement to their IA or somebody? How does his partner feel too? Does he have to lie and cover for his partner or risk being labeled a rat? Again not a situation I would ever want to be in. Could not pay me enough to be a cop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalRuss Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, LOSer said: Again, you're not saying anything here. That's my point. We've got a problem. And police shooting civilians won't solve it. And why would we be shooting drug addicts? Many police shootings involve those under the influence of drugs. Therefore many being shot aren't making rational decisions during their police encounters. Unjustified or questionable police shootings during an encounter is a tiny outlier that wouldn't be visible on a graph, not the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, AztecPadre said: Not a situation I would ever want to be in. Now why does the cop that shot her refuse to be interviewed? Don't they have to give a statement to their IA or somebody? How does his partner feel too? Does he have to lie and cover for his partner or risk being labeled a rat? Again not a situation I would ever want to be in. Could not pay me enough to be a cop. Every state has different rules, and within each state every department has differing policies. That being says, He has the same rights as everyone else (think Miranda rights... Right to remain silent etc). That being said, if he refuses to give an interview or write a statement, probably a violation of departmental policy and will be terminated. Furthermore, under Graham v Conner, the reasonableness of a police officers use of force deals with his fears at the moment of force used, so if he doesn't give any statements to investigators it pretty much guarantees he will be charged criminally. Graham v Conner is the current supreme court case that lays out justifiable use of force by a police officer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, ron169 said: Every state has different rules, and within each state every department has differing policies. That being says, He has the same rights as everyone else (think Miranda rights... Right to remain silent etc). That being said, if he refuses to give an interview or write a statement, probably a violation of departmental policy and will be terminated. Furthermore, under Graham v Conner, the reasonableness of a police officers use of force deals with his fears at the moment of force used, so if he doesn't give any statements to investigators it pretty much guarantees he will be charged criminally. Graham v Conner is the current supreme court case that lays out justifiable use of force by a police officer. Gotcha. Thanks. Whats your opinion on how his partner feels? Does he have to fear being labeled a rat if he comes out against his partner? Assuming his partner was in the wrong, which based on what we know and his refusal to give a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalRuss Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, AztecPadre said: Gotcha. Thanks. Whats your opinion on how his partner feels? Does he have to fear being labeled a rat if he comes out against his partner? Assuming his partner was in the wrong, which based on what we know and his refusal to give a statement. I would guess his partner is pissed off about the situation. Prob even confused about it. I think most would tell the truth about what happen and go from there. I have a few friends that have shot suspects and both felt bad about them ( 1 died and 1 paralyzed ) even though both were 100% legit since they were being fired at. Having bullets fly at you will change you forever. Ive had 3 good friends killed in line of duty. Howie Stevenson ( was killed by Marine in ambush shooting and caught on video of store many years ago) and Dennis Wallace ( was ambushed and shot in head about year ago ) and Rachel Johnson was killed in vehicle accident recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Just now, NorCalRuss said: I would guess his partner is pissed off about the situation. Prob even confused about it. I think most would tell the truth about what happen and go from there. I have a few friends that have shot suspects and both felt bad about them ( 1 died and 1 paralyzed ) even though both were 100% legit since they were being fired at. Having bullets fly at you will change you forever. Ive had 3 good friends killed in line of duty. Howie Stevenson ( was killed by Marine in ambush shooting and caught on video of store many years ago) and Dennis Wallace ( was ambushed and shot in head about year ago ) and Rachel Johnson was killed in vehicle accident recently. Was this the one in Fresno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 You know, every department is different. What works down here in rural South might not work in Chicago or Maine. I look at it like these stories about cops taking kick backs in New York (Serpico) or like Baltimore video of cops planting evidence and that is completely foreign to me. It blows me away that things like that occur still today because it's not how things are where I'm from. How does the cop feel though? Scared. Scared that he is going to lose his job because his partner shot someone. Cops seem to be more scared of politicians than anything. Doing your job the right way and getting fucked by a vote chasing politician. I know if I was in his shoes, I'd just tell the truth. It's no fun sitting across from a GBI agent. I've done it once and was scared shitless, even though i'd done nothing wrong. As for the "blue wall"... That shit goes out the window when your sitting across froma GBI agent. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 24 minutes ago, ron169 said: I don't need to justify them. They are either self defense or murder. Each one is separate and should be judged on the circumstances for that case. And who is it that determines whether a police shooting is labeled as justifiable homicide? The police department itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, NorCalRuss said: Many police shootings involve those under the influence of drugs. Therefore many being shot aren't making rational decisions during their police encounters. Unjustified or questionable police shootings during an encounter is a tiny outlier that wouldn't be visible on a graph, not the norm. Are there not people under the influence of drugs in Britain? Or France? Or Germany? What are you even trying to say? More people are being shot by police despite crime being down and shootings of police officers being down. There's an issue there whether you want to continue apologizing for it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, NorCalRuss said: I would guess his partner is pissed off about the situation. Prob even confused about it. I think most would tell the truth about what happen and go from there. You are very naive. At the very least anything he says is going to be completely exculpatory for the shooter. Cops don't say bad things about cops. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, LOSer said: And who is it that determines whether a police shooting is labeled as justifiable homicide? The police department itself. Now a days, a district attorney voted on by the people. It's called a democratic republic. In Georgia, all officer involved shootings are investigated by the GBI by law. GBI turns facts over to DAs office for final determination. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, ron169 said: You know, every department is different. What works down here in rural South might not work in Chicago or Maine. I look at it like these stories about cops taking kick backs in New York (Serpico) or like Baltimore video of cops planting evidence and that is completely foreign to me. It blows me away that things like that occur still today because it's not how things are where I'm from. Are you saying that police corruption doesn't occur in the rural south? You people have got to be kidding me with this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, ron169 said: Doing your job the right way and getting fucked by a vote chasing politician. When does this happen? You claim that police shootings are rare but then make a claim like this. It's amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, LOSer said: Are you saying that police corruption doesn't occur in the rural south? You people have got to be kidding me with this stuff. Don't recall saying that. But I will say it doesn't seem as widespread and rampant as it is in democratic controlled areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Just now, LOSer said: When does this happen? You claim that police shootings are rare but then make a claim like this. It's amazing. Huh? When do cops gets fucked by politicians? Happens everyday, and not just from shootings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, ron169 said: Now a days, a district attorney voted on by the people. It's called a democratic republic. No. The FBI stats are reported by local police departments. And how many police officers are prosecuted successfully (or even prosecuted at all) for killing an unarmed civilian? You are delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, ron169 said: In Georgia, all officer involved shootings are investigated by the GBI by law. GBI turns facts over to DAs office for final determination. Again, that's something entirely different. And tell me how many of them are ever actually prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, LOSer said: When does this happen? You claim that police shootings are rare but then make a claim like this. It's amazing. Here's an example from this week https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2017/jul/12/without-warning-city-eliminates-police-depart/437834/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Just now, ron169 said: Here's an example from this week https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2017/jul/12/without-warning-city-eliminates-police-depart/437834/ Dead link. So good work thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, LOSer said: No. The FBI stats are reported by local police departments. And how many police officers are prosecuted successfully (or even prosecuted at all) for killing an unarmed civilian? You are delusional. How am I delusional? Police officers are citizens just like everyone else. They have rights and a right to a jury trial. If the state can't meet the burden of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, they are found not guilty. I though you knew all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, ron169 said: Don't recall saying that. You have bad recall. 16 minutes ago, ron169 said: I look at it like these stories about cops taking kick backs in New York (Serpico) or like Baltimore video of cops planting evidence and that is completely foreign to me. It blows me away that things like that occur still today because it's not how things are where I'm from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 http://www.daltondailycitizen.com/news/local_news/varnell-officials-scrambling-after-vote-to-dissolve-police-department/article_927efd88-3182-5180-badd-3cb055e4800b.html Try that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LOSer Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, ron169 said: How am I delusional? You think that because a prosecutor looks at the case then therefore it's just. Prosecutors don't pursue police officers for shooting civilians and when they do they almost always lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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