I hope this puts the NCAA out of business.

[Columbiafan]

Maybe now that the troll ran off we can get focused on the topic at hand 

 

I'm definitely interested in seeing what happens with the college football season and it does seem NCAA is losing all it's control piece by piece 

[The Guru]

7 minutes ago, HooverOutlaw said:

I don't care if they are non profit or not. I know they use kids for the almighty dollar and are a racist organization.

😄

"I don't care to be informed or not! I just want to spout stuff that I feel deep down but have no evidence of!"

And he said this on the same day that two of their major conferences will forfeit potentially hundreds of millions of dollars while the players are begging to play.

[Columbiafan]

1 minute ago, The Guru said:

😄

"I don't care to be informed or not! I just want to spout stuff that I feel deep down but have no evidence of!"

And he said this on the same day that two of their major conferences will forfeit potentially hundreds of millions of dollars while the players are begging to play.

You haven't shared one concrete piece of evidence

 

You lost, get lost, dumbass loser

[Fred]

3 hours ago, HooverOutlaw said:

Just hoping I live long enough to see it.

They have made billions off the backs of 19-22 year old kids while providing nothing.   Never heard of a business making billions while not providing any product or service but the NCAA does it.

Providing nothing?  There are tens of thousands of students every year that get an education and a leg up on the future from playing NCAA sports.

[HooverOutlaw]

7 minutes ago, Fred said:

Providing nothing?  There are tens of thousands of students every year that get an education and a leg up on the future from playing NCAA sports.

Where does that money come from?

 

[Columbiafan]

18 minutes ago, Fred said:

Providing nothing?  There are tens of thousands of students every year that get an education and a leg up on the future from playing NCAA sports.

You act like the NCAA actually did something there

 

In reality the same result could happen with the colleges forming their own independent leagues and cut out the middle man (NCAA) 

 

What exactly does the NCAA do that can't be done by a college colilition

[Fred]

3 hours ago, HooverOutlaw said:

Where does that money come from?

 

It clearly comes from fans, donors, TV money, and sponsorships.  My point is that you claim the students work for "free" and get nothing from the schools when the reality is vastly different.

[Fred]

3 hours ago, Columbiafan said:

You act like the NCAA actually did something there

In reality the same result could happen with the colleges forming their own independent leagues and cut out the middle man (NCAA)

What exactly does the NCAA do that can't be done by a college colilition

I think your youth and lack of big business experience may be showing through here.  Issues of scale come into play.  The NCAA can package much better offerings because they offer a more complete product.  That buys clout.  Clout equals dollars.  Dollars equals better facilities and more opportunities.  I can't swear to it but I think the NCAA revenue shares with the smaller conferences/schools.  That is a good thing for them.  They also try to look after the scholar athletes to ensure they don't get taken advantage of and have the education and health care while playing.

Free education is a good thing.  Sports don't last forever when you are playing, at least not at the professional level.  Education gives you something to fall back on when the sports runs out.  On top of that, most of the collegiate players never make it to the pros in their sports.  The numbers vary by sport but the odds are pretty small.  I know of plenty of players that turned into succesful business people when their playing days were over.  Fran Tarkenton is an example of a great college and pro player that made more after his playing days were over as a developer.

I've mentioned the benefits of the NCAA.  Smaller coalitions can't wield that power.  If you replace them with smaller groups, the buying power goes away so to speak.  If the coalitions get big enough to truly provide the kind of support the NCAA currently does, then all you have done is trade one group for another with a different name.

[HooverOutlaw]

1 hour ago, Fred said:

It clearly comes from fans, donors, TV money, and sponsorships.  My point is that you claim the students work for "free" and get nothing from the schools when the reality is vastly different.

Thanks for agreeing with me. That money does not come from the NCAA.

[HooverOutlaw]

7 minutes ago, Fred said:

I think your youth and lack of big business experience may be showing through here.  Issues of scale come into play.  The NCAA can package much better offerings because they offer a more complete product.  That buys clout.  Clout equals dollars.  Dollars equals better facilities and more opportunities.  I can't swear to it but I think the NCAA revenue shares with the smaller conferences/schools.  That is a good thing for them.  They also try to look after the scholar athletes to ensure they don't get taken advantage of and have the education and health care while playing.

Free education is a good thing.  Sports don't last forever when you are playing, at least not at the professional level.  Education gives you something to fall back on when the sports runs out.  On top of that, most of the collegiate players never make it to the pros in their sports.  The numbers vary by sport but the odds are pretty small.  I know of plenty of players that turned into succesful business people when their playing days were over.  Fran Tarkenton is an example of a great college and pro player that made more after his playing days were over as a developer.

I've mentioned the benefits of the NCAA.  Smaller coalitions can't wield that power.  If you replace them with smaller groups, the buying power goes away so to speak.  If the coalitions get big enough to truly provide the kind of support the NCAA currently does, then all you have done is trade one group for another with a different name.

The players are the labourers for the NCAA.   Nobody is talking a small group.  Again what has the NCAA done for these players? It's what the players have done for the NCAA.  

[Fred]

3 minutes ago, HooverOutlaw said:

Thanks for agreeing with me. That money does not come the NCAA.

I think you left a word or two out of the last sentence but who knows.  Either way, if you think the money coming in would be on the same level that results from the NCAA packing deals I think you ignore the power of that marketing.  Without them, you would have a few haves and a whole lot of have nots to the point smaller programs would struggle and many smaller Di and most of the DII schools would shutter many of their sports operations maybe in total and certainly in the smaller sports.

[Fred]

1 minute ago, HooverOutlaw said:

The players are the labourers for the NCAA.   Nobody is talking a small group.  Again what has the NCAA done for these players? It's what the players have done for the NCAA.  

Either you failed to read the whole post or you totally missed the point.  Columbiafan was talking about smaller coalitions.  Either way I think this is another point we will have to agree to disagree on.

[Columbiafan]

18 minutes ago, Fred said:

I think your youth and lack of big business experience may be showing through here.  Issues of scale come into play.  The NCAA can package much better offerings because they offer a more complete product.  That buys clout.  Clout equals dollars.  Dollars equals better facilities and more opportunities.  I can't swear to it but I think the NCAA revenue shares with the smaller conferences/schools.  That is a good thing for them.  They also try to look after the scholar athletes to ensure they don't get taken advantage of and have the education and health care while playing.

Free education is a good thing.  Sports don't last forever when you are playing, at least not at the professional level.  Education gives you something to fall back on when the sports runs out.  On top of that, most of the collegiate players never make it to the pros in their sports.  The numbers vary by sport but the odds are pretty small.  I know of plenty of players that turned into succesful business people when their playing days were over.  Fran Tarkenton is an example of a great college and pro player that made more after his playing days were over as a developer.

I've mentioned the benefits of the NCAA.  Smaller coalitions can't wield that power.  If you replace them with smaller groups, the buying power goes away so to speak.  If the coalitions get big enough to truly provide the kind of support the NCAA currently does, then all you have done is trade one group for another with a different name.

Kinda like when the NCAA investigators tried to use the lawyer of a ponzi schemer to get dirt on a program so they could punish them

 

The NCAA has no form of integrity because they have shown time and again (likely due to the fact their leader is a spineless coward) that they only have the interest of the rich in play 

 

 

What came first the chicken or the egg

 

Say that tomorrow

Alabama

Auburn

LSU

Florida

Georgia

Texas

Oklahoma

Clemson

Florida State

Miami

Ohio State

Penn State

Michigan

Notre Dame

Oregon

USC 

 

 

All pull out and form their own coalition, would the NCAA really have more weight at their back then that coalition? The top programs hold more power than the NCAA does because networks would follow the talent and the brands, a coalition like that removes the middle man in the NCAA

 

Also I've seen no evidence of the NCAA helping smaller schools, most schools fend for themselves as is

[HooverOutlaw]

54 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

Kinda like when the NCAA investigators tried to use the lawyer of a ponzi schemer to get dirt on a program so they could punish them

 

The NCAA has no form of integrity because they have shown time and again (likely due to the fact their leader is a spineless coward) that they only have the interest of the rich in play 

 

 

What came first the chicken or the egg

 

Say that tomorrow

Alabama

Auburn

LSU

Florida

Georgia

Texas

Oklahoma

Clemson

Florida State

Miami

Ohio State

Penn State

Michigan

Notre Dame

Oregon

USC 

 

 

All pull out and form their own coalition, would the NCAA really have more weight at their back then that coalition? The top programs hold more power than the NCAA does because networks would follow the talent and the brands, a coalition like that removes the middle man in the NCAA

 

Also I've seen no evidence of the NCAA helping smaller schools, most schools fend for themselves as is

That deal was when they investigated Miami at the end of the day the NCAA admitted they broke their own rules during the investigation. How about the NCAA investigators that were have sex with Ole Miss booster's wife while investigating Miss State. They are a dirty bunch. 

They don't care about small schools can't make tv money off them.

[Gospeeder]

8 hours ago, HooverOutlaw said:

Just hoping I live long enough to see it.

They have made billions off the backs of 19-22 year old kids while providing nothing.   Never heard of a business making billions while not providing any product or service but the NCAA does it.

 

H O

I would beg to differ in that the product they provide is entertainment of which we for the most part, buy into. March Madness and the bowl games along with the playoffs, make for riveting TV to many.

Now if what you are referring to is the fact the the kids only receive an education ( which is often questionable ), relative to the ridiculous amounts of money that the beneficiaries of the entity rake in ( not including jobs for vendors )... that's a discussion worth having.

 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

6 hours ago, Fred said:

Providing nothing?  There are tens of thousands of students every year that get an education and a leg up on the future from playing NCAA sports.

It’s a job on the plantation Fred, nothing more.... not even sure it meets minimum wages while the NCAA  and member coaches are killing it. 
 

I could go over everything, every commitment required and so forth, but I believe you to be intelligent enough to figure it out. 
 

bgw

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

2 hours ago, Fred said:

I think your youth and lack of big business experience may be showing through here.  Issues of scale come into play.  The NCAA can package much better offerings because they offer a more complete product.  That buys clout.  Clout equals dollars.  Dollars equals better facilities and more opportunities.  I can't swear to it but I think the NCAA revenue shares with the smaller conferences/schools.  That is a good thing for them.  They also try to look after the scholar athletes to ensure they don't get taken advantage of and have the education and health care while playing.

Free education is a good thing.  Sports don't last forever when you are playing, at least not at the professional level.  Education gives you something to fall back on when the sports runs out.  On top of that, most of the collegiate players never make it to the pros in their sports.  The numbers vary by sport but the odds are pretty small.  I know of plenty of players that turned into succesful business people when their playing days were over.  Fran Tarkenton is an example of a great college and pro player that made more after his playing days were over as a developer.

I've mentioned the benefits of the NCAA.  Smaller coalitions can't wield that power.  If you replace them with smaller groups, the buying power goes away so to speak.  If the coalitions get big enough to truly provide the kind of support the NCAA currently does, then all you have done is trade one group for another with a different name.

There’s no such thing as “free education”, the school owns these athletes and their time, nothing “free” about that. 
 

bgw

[badrouter]

9 hours ago, Columbiafan said:

Even then it took 3 Lakeland losses before STA kicked it up a notch 

Six losses to Lakeland 😁

[badrouter]

The NCAA and the member institutions have gotten a bad rap. Yes, they can do more for players than they have. But, many should recognize what the schools can (and perhaps should) do: Simply stop giving athletic scholarships and fielding scholarship sports programs. Or, continue offering such scholarships, but only to those with grades and test scores (ok, I guess tests may be on their way out) that are in line with those who gain admission separate of athletic considerations. Players can be free to earn every single penny the free market will pay them...from someplace outside of the university. It won't take long to realize there is not much of a market for minor league sports, or that the number of players ready for the pros out of high school is very small. The deal now where tuition, room and board is covered-and then some- is not "nothing".

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

5 hours ago, badrouter said:

The NCAA and the member institutions have gotten a bad rap. Yes, they can do more for players than they have. But, many should recognize what the schools can (and perhaps should) do: Simply stop giving athletic scholarships and fielding scholarship sports programs. Or, continue offering such scholarships, but only to those with grades and test scores (ok, I guess tests may be on their way out) that are in line with those who gain admission separate of athletic considerations. Players can be free to earn every single penny the free market will pay them...from someplace outside of the university. It won't take long to realize there is not much of a market for minor league sports, or that the number of players ready for the pros out of high school is very small. The deal now where tuition, room and board is covered-and then some- is not "nothing".

Slave wages off the backs of these athletes so coaches can make millions. 
 

The plantation has moved from the fields Of agriculture to the fields of play. 
 

Only difference is the whip, chains and kidnapping didn’t take place, but had other controls such as coach discretion to transfer destination and other overseer activities. 
 

Purely transactional on all levels, NCAA is killing it at the register and once again... White men are running the plantation. 
 

bgw

[Sweetlarry]

5 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Slave wages off the backs of these athletes so coaches can make millions. 
 

The plantation has moved from the fields Of agriculture to the fields of play. 
 

Only difference is the whip, chains and kidnapping didn’t take place, but had other controls such as coach discretion to transfer destination and other overseer activities. 
 

Purely transactional on all levels, NCAA is killing it at the register and once again... White men are running the plantation. 
 

bgw

Little too much baileys in the coffee or not enough? 😂 

 

Let’s see your proposal. Show me how your gonna pay these kids. Enlighten me. 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

13 minutes ago, Sweetlarry said:

Little too much baileys in the coffee or not enough? 😂 

 

Let’s see your proposal. Show me how your gonna pay these kids. Enlighten me. 

Haven’t the foggiest idea, salary and wage administration at the college level? Not really a concern to me but the “illusion” of a “free” education is one thing, the NCAA gaslighting the public into believing that the “allure” of amateur sports would be lost giving these athletes a fair shake, lost revenue to declining ticket sales. 
 

Pro sports have the biggest farm system and don’t have to pay a fucking dime, except baseball they have a farm system. 
 

bgw

[The Guru]

9 hours ago, HooverOutlaw said:

Thanks for agreeing with me. That money does not come from the NCAA.

The NCAA is the schools.

Hence the money did, in fact, come "from" them.

[The Guru]

8 hours ago, Fred said:

Either you failed to read the whole post or you totally missed the point.  Columbiafan was talking about smaller coalitions.  Either way I think this is another point we will have to agree to disagree on.

He's an idiot.

He still thinks that the NCAA is a "middleman" and that the schools should create their own leagues.

The schools created the NCAA.

If the NCAA "went out of business" then the schools would just get together and create another association that would do practically the same thing.

Again, you can't have discussions about this topic with most people because most people are dumbasses who don't know enough to be informed.

[The Guru]

7 hours ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

It’s a job on the plantation Fred, nothing more.... not even sure it meets minimum wages while the NCAA  and member coaches are killing it.

It's not a job and they're not employees.

Simple enough understanding of labor laws would clear this up for you.