concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, noonereal said: why is that? Has this been previously addressed? (I am begging you, no wing nut dogma, just honest facts) You would need to ask the Germans why. They are, by far, the leading economic power in Europe yet are outspent (both in percentage of GDP and absolute dollars) by both the UK and France, both with far smaller GDPs. From our end, it is obvious that no president (shamefully) has aggressively pushed our deadbeat allies to meet their commitments. Sure, some lip service every now and then, but that was all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, World Citizen said: Us guys focus on crowd size? How can you say that? Trump was the one focusing on crowd size, the media just reported on his lies about it. Fast and Furious was a Bush program. I guess we will disagree on that fact. Benghazi=nothing there. Benghazi=nothing there Russian Collusion=nothing there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, World Citizen said: That's ok. We don't have to convince each other. Did you watch any of the hearings? I did and they were a farce. Ill bet you whatever you want to bet that you will come away from the Russian collusion hearings the same way I felt after the Benghazi hearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, World Citizen said: That's ok. We don't have to convince each other. Did you watch any of the hearings? Some, yes. I'm actually currently reading 13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened in Benghazi. I have a photo of my boys with "Tig" Teigen, one of the operators who was there and who consulted on the book and the movie. We met him at the NRA convention a few weeks ago here in Atlanta. Not a political book, btw. Mainly a boots on the ground account. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 For reference regarding NATO obligations. http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-share-breakdown-country-2017-2 Quote Only five of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's 28 member countries last year met the alliance goal of spending at least 2% of their gross domestic product on defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 How funny or how sad it is. Today Booker wants to trash Saudi Arabia for being this horrible country who has a terrible history of abuse against women. Funny I never heard word one from him when Saudi Arabia was funneling millions of dollars into the Clinton campaign. My how times have changed. If Trump would have been hard on the middle East and kissed the European ass. Today headlines would be how horrible Trump was to our Middle Eastern friends and how he bent over for the Europeans. Let the man do his damn job...or here is an idea, get off your ass and make a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, thc6795 said: I did and they were a farce. Ill bet you whatever you want to bet that you will come away from the Russian collusion hearings the same way I felt after the Benghazi hearings. Its possible but it's a apples/meat load type of thing. I will wait for the investigation to finish but even of nobody broke the law I'm not on board with Russia as they are not our friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Just now, World Citizen said: Its possible but it's a apples/meat load type of thing. I will wait for the investigation to finish but even of nobody broke the law I'm not on board with Russia as they are not our friend. either was Syria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 49 minutes ago, thc6795 said: I did and they were a farce. Ill bet you whatever you want to bet that you will come away from the Russian collusion hearings the same way I felt after the Benghazi hearings. Farce in what way? We both came away with different views. I'll agree that it was a farce/political witch hunt/ waste of time and money. Were you this upset when during Bush admin there were many more embassy attacks and more people killed? Or just Benghazi? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 48 minutes ago, thc6795 said: either was Syria What do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 THC, how was your weekend? Good I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 I honestly can't figure the big deal or see the huge problem with NATO and our allies commitments. Trump blasts it on twitter as if these allies owe someone (us) money or something. Many people believe that. These countries committed to spending some higher percentage of their gdp on their own military defense by the year 2024 and that's it. They aren't wrecking our rectum on debts owed or anything as far as NATO is concerned. I'm beginning to wonder if the president even realizes that himself by reading his tweets. One thing for sure... it has a lot of people wanting to collect a debt from our allies though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: I honestly can't figure the big deal or see the huge problem with NATO and our allies commitments. Trump blasts it on twitter as if these allies owe someone (us) money or something. Many people believe that. These countries committed to spending some higher percentage of their gdp on their own military defense by the year 2024 and that's it. They aren't wrecking our rectum on debts owed or anything as far as NATO is concerned. I'm beginning to wonder if the president even realizes that himself by reading his tweets. One thing for sure... it has a lot of people wanting to collect a debt from our allies though. The 2% goal is from at least as early as 2006 (the NATO Riga summit). Here's what has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 34 minutes ago, World Citizen said: Farce in what way? We both came away with different views. I'll agree that it was a farce/political witch hunt/ waste of time and money. Were you this upset when during Bush admin there were many more embassy attacks and more people killed? Or just Benghazi? I believe those hearings were a farce just like these ones will be. Then it was Obama and people who he put in office doing the investigating. The cons didn't hold enough seats to do anything. I believe Obama and Killiar were guilty as hell. I believe they could have helped those kids and left them there to die. Im sure you feel differently no big deal. As for Bush? Look I understand we are going to be attacked. I was not upset that we were attacked in Benghazi, I was upset with the cover up after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 35 minutes ago, World Citizen said: THC, how was your weekend? Good I hope. Very enjoyable thank you. I hope yours was as well bro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, concha said: The 2% goal is from at least as early as 2006 (the NATO Riga summit). Here's what has happened. Yet they still have nearly 7 years to comply with their committed amount per the agreement. As the graph shows not many have increased much during that time, but lest we all forget there was also a worldwide recession in that same time frame as well. It's not like some emergency thing that needs to happen and it's not like they owe us on a loan or something as the tweets would have us believe. This is all about fanfare for Trump. As these countries move ahead with their budgets and increase their expenditures he can now claim it was all him, when in reality, these countries were in the same economic shape as us and are just now coming out of it just like us. Trump just wants to take credit for something that was most likely going to happen anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 minute ago, HawgGoneIt said: Yet they still have nearly 7 years to comply with their committed amount per the agreement. As the graph shows not many have increased much during that time, but lest we all forget there was also a worldwide recession in that same time frame as well. It's not like some emergency thing that needs to happen and it's not like they owe us on a loan or something as the tweets would have us believe. This is all about fanfare for Trump. As these countries move ahead with their budgets and increase their expenditures he can now claim it was all him, when in reality, these countries were in the same economic shape as us and are just now coming out of it just like us. Trump just wants to take credit for something that was most likely going to happen anyway. There has been an informal agreement since 2006. Both before and after the recession. NATO members are supposed to be able to engage in meaningful defense of themselves and their fellow NATO members. Do you honestly believe that gets done at a spending leel of 1.2% of GDP? Look at the state of the German military. It's shocking. http://nationalinterest.org/feature/germanys-military-dying-13748 Quote Fixed wing aircraft, helicopters and other vehicles have been grounded due to lack of spare parts, bringing readiness rates below 50%. Germany was originally buying 180 Eurofighters, but a cancelled purchase in 2014 means only 143 fighters will be acquired. As of October 2014, only 42 of 109 Eurofighters were in flying condition, the rest grounded by lack of spare parts. At the same time, Germany reportedly halved annual flying hours for air crews, fearing that the fuselage would become unstable. The German Navy and Air Force received a total of 357 Tornado aircraft. Their numbers reduced after the Cold War, Germany plans to keep the remainder in service until 2025 or beyond. Like other German weapon systems the Tornados are underfunded and of August 2014, only 38 of 89 were operational. West Germany procured 2,125 Leopard IIs — enough to equip nearly twelve panzer (tank) and panzergrenadier (mechanized infantry) divisions. The end of the Cold War and declining defense budgets caused Germany to shed nearly 90% of its tank force, and today the Bundeswehr has just 225 Leopard II tanks. Last February, Panzergrenadier Battalion 371, based in Marienburg, was participating in a NATO exercise in Norway. News quickly spread that the battalion, part of NATO’s Rapid Reaction Force, suffered from a shortage of pistols and night vision goggles. A shortage of MG3 machine guns meant broomsticks were painted black and pressed into service to simulate them. A new report states that the situation was even worse: Panzergrenadier Battalion 371 had to borrow 14,371 pieces of equipment from a total of 56 other Bundeswehr units… and it was still short on equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, HawgGoneIt said: I honestly can't figure the big deal or see the huge problem with NATO and our allies commitments. Trump blasts it on twitter as if these allies owe someone (us) money or something. Many people believe that. These countries committed to spending some higher percentage of their gdp on their own military defense by the year 2024 and that's it. They aren't wrecking our rectum on debts owed or anything as far as NATO is concerned. I'm beginning to wonder if the president even realizes that himself by reading his tweets. One thing for sure... it has a lot of people wanting to collect a debt from our allies though. Everyone but concha knows why King Orange called out Merkel on twitter at 5 AM this morning. She may as well been some reporter that pissed in Orange's cornflakes. Freaking idiotic talking NATO with a fool. concha, is brain dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, TheRealCAJ said: Everyone but concha knows why King Orange called out Merkel on twitter at 5 AM this morning. She may as well been some reporter that pissed in Orange's cornflakes. Freaking idiotic talking NATO with a fool. concha, is brain dead. Yes, Chip. I'm sure the whole board holds your grasp on facts and events well above mine and have done for a long time. Rage on, my dumb little racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 minute ago, concha said: Yes, Chip. I'm sure the whole board holds your grasp on facts and events well above mine and have done for a long time. Rage on, my dumb little racist. the whole board can read King Orange's twitter archive for proof.....you do it instead of looking like a complete moron. Clear? PS....STFU about NATO...you are so far in right field you are not even in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheRealCAJ said: the whole board can read King Orange's twitter archive for proof.....you do it instead of looking like a complete moron. Clear? PS....STFU about NATO...you are so far in right field you are not even in the game. Of course, Chip. You have displayed in-depth, backwards and forwards knowledge of the topic that has been an intellectual tour-de-force. The facts and data that I have displayed are nothing in comparison. The German chancellor appreciates your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 minute ago, concha said: Of course, Chip. You have displayed in-depth, backwards and forwards knowledge of the topic that has been an intellectual tour-de-force. The facts and data that I have displayed are nothing in comparison. Correct. We can agree finally. Your facts are 2 minute googles with no context. Work harder. I'm positive you've heard that before numerous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheRealCAJ said: Correct. We can agree finally. Your facts are 2 minute googles with no context. Work harder. I'm positive you've heard that before numerous times. So you have been aware of Germany's woeful military situation and complete lack of effort to pull its weight? (I have) And you are OK with it, while our own nation covers for their weakness? You are a great American, Chip the Dumb Racist. Again, the German chancellor appreciates your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 2 hours ago, concha said: So you have been aware of Germany's woeful military situation and complete lack of effort to pull its weight? (I have) Of course you have, concha. You have now mentioned NATO 3 times in 10 years of posting on these forums. Go try to bully a 2nd grader.....I'm out of your league, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 5 hours ago, concha said: Some, yes. I'm actually currently reading 13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened in Benghazi. I have a photo of my boys with "Tig" Teigen, one of the operators who was there and who consulted on the book and the movie. We met him at the NRA convention a few weeks ago here in Atlanta. Not a political book, btw. Mainly a boots on the ground account. My apologies. You were correct and I was mistaken on Fast and Furious. That didn't hurt one little bit. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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