Soul searching time for DLS

[dntn31]

1 minute ago, Pops said:

I’m not going into the CIF archives to make my case — I don’t need to 

Negro clearly took a different approach in 2013 — no CA team ever had won a championship by importing so much talent 

CIF didn’t blink and the arms race was on 

Am happy to compare talent of both schools before and after but, again, I’m not going to spend time proving something so blatantly obvious 

I’ve been clear that neither SJB not md are violating CIF rules, but I do find it amusing that CIF would forbid teams to play IMG concurrently to watching “this” develop — seems very hypocritical 

Just because two teams have similar levels of talent, doesn't mean they ended up with that talent in the same way. IMG actively recruits players throughout the country because they aren't beholden to any rules that say they can't. By saying MD and SJB are doing what IMG does you are implying (or in some cases straight out claiming) that they are doing what IMG does. You can't back this up because if you could then MD and SJB would be hit by the CIF and be in the same boat as Narbonne (because the CIF has rules against it and actually enforces those rules). MD and SJB play by the same rules as DLS, whether you feel like they do or not.

[On2whls]

16 minutes ago, Pops said:

Socal putting all their best athletes on 2 teams doesn’t make socal football better or worse, does it?

Cmon now, this is embellishment.  They don’t get all the best athletes. There are plenty of programs with good athletes.  MD and SJB are solid at every single position, and that differentiates them from the rest of the pack.  

[Ararar]

33 minutes ago, On2whls said:

Cmon now, this is embellishment.  They don’t get all the best athletes. There are plenty of programs with good athletes.  MD and SJB are solid at every single position, and that differentiates them from the rest of the pack.  

Pops just needs to make excuses for DLS

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

5 hours ago, AztecPadre said:

I will offer you the same thing if you ever come out here.  There, better? 

You better do it up... I'll talk bad on you.

LOL

BGW

[Kalven]

No such thing as moral victory. I was rooting for DLS too. Its time they stop making excuse how they should've won and start doing things that will make them win! Its time DLS takes the "academy" approach....

[Belly Bob]

5 hours ago, Bestcoast said:

It was another good morale victory for the Spartans. There fans should continue to be proud. 

It was a moral victory, which is the only kind of victory that's worth anything.

Football won't survive this century unless we can point to values beyond winning championships to justify its existence. 

Bosco also did well. They scheduled hard; they beat MD; they played with a ton of class against DLS. It was a good night for HSFB. 

[Belly Bob]

On 12/16/2019 at 1:05 PM, maxchoboian said:

DLS is not the same as MD or SJB, somewhat similar to how public schools in CA are not the same as DLS. We've been over this before.

DLS benefits from being able to accept kids from a much larger area than a standard public school district. Which of these DLS players were from the Concord area: DJ Williams, Maurice Jones-Drew, Aaron Taylor, Austin Hooper, Amani Toomer, Terrance Kelly, etc.?

DLS doesn't get transfers like MD and SJB do, but they get extremely talented kids from plenty far away -- much more so than say, Monte Vista or Amador Valley or Pittsburg high schools are able to consistently allow.

DLS is a private school, and they work hard, no questions. But they are not a "regular" team.

Good point. 

It's a mistake to think that there are two kinds of HSFB football programs in this country, academy teams and regular teams. 

With respect to the rules they are required to follow and their actual practices, IMG is different in kind from SJB, which is different in kind from DLS, which is different in kind from Concord High School. 

[Pops]

5 hours ago, The Guru said:

And most teams with a national profile would be expected to beat Centennial, Crenshaw, Servite and Westlake.

So when the teams are elite, DLS doesn't win. When they're not they usually do.

There's nothing controversial here.

If Centennial isn’t a nationally elite team for the past 5/10/15 years, give me the list who is 

easy to mock Servite now but they were undefeated Pac5 champs

crenshaw had 3 or 4 guys that were at least in NFL camps besides a couple of guys still there 

westlake is also easy to mock in retrospect — result would have been the same with Santa Margarita which was only other contender 

but, yes, to your point, DLS hasn’t been able to beat this new academy-Esque team 

it is what it is — I was never a fan of IMG etc from the get go, but the cow is out of the barn at this point and some teams just have rosters right now that all but a handful of P5 programs (1 hand) would take en masse if given the choice between hunt and peck or take (ie) SJB, md, IMG etc

im happy that it appears DLS can compete against those teams with their teams..... winning would be nice but with the talent disparity, showing well can be a moral victory — those guys are unlike hSfb teams of the past and they’ve raised the ceiling by a couple of TDs vs the field 

again, it is what it is — they are phenomenal hSfb teams, but DLS, nor anyone else, ought to feel like they need to play the same game to “succeed”

[Bestcoast]

21 minutes ago, Pops said:

If Centennial isn’t a nationally elite team for the past 5/10/15 years, give me the list who is 

easy to mock Servite now but they were undefeated Pac5 champs

crenshaw had 3 or 4 guys that were at least in NFL camps besides a couple of guys still there 

westlake is also easy to mock in retrospect — result would have been the same with Santa Margarita which was only other contender 

but, yes, to your point, DLS hasn’t been able to beat this new academy-Esque team 

it is what it is — I was never a fan of IMG etc from the get go, but the cow is out of the barn at this point and some teams just have rosters right now that all but a handful of P5 programs (1 hand) would take en masse if given the choice between hunt and peck or take (ie) SJB, md, IMG etc

im happy that it appears DLS can compete against those teams with their teams..... winning would be nice but with the talent disparity, showing well can be a moral victory — those guys are unlike hSfb teams of the past and they’ve raised the ceiling by a couple of TDs vs the field 

again, it is what it is — they are phenomenal hSfb teams, but DLS, nor anyone else, ought to feel like they need to play the same game to “succeed”

With all the spinning you do, it’s probably time for your daily wine and cheese 

[Pops]

6 hours ago, dntn31 said:

Just because two teams have similar levels of talent, doesn't mean they ended up with that talent in the same way. IMG actively recruits players throughout the country because they aren't beholden to any rules that say they can't. By saying MD and SJB are doing what IMG does you are implying (or in some cases straight out claiming) that they are doing what IMG does. You can't back this up because if you could then MD and SJB would be hit by the CIF and be in the same boat as Narbonne (because the CIF has rules against it and actually enforces those rules). MD and SJB play by the same rules as DLS, whether you feel like they do or not.

You are a very reasonable guy so I’ll try to elaborate — and I don’t think i‘M besmirching SJB as much as it appears you do 

don’t take me so literal on academy and IMG comparisons — there are distinctions that I am ignoring in my description — think of “academy” as an abridged version of “those teams that.... however they’re doing it.... are now unabashedly assembling heretofore unseen levels of talent on single teams”

for whatever reason, by whatever means, SJB and 5-10 other schools around the country have the ability and intent to put together basically very good P5 roster levels of talent 

so, while I appreciate you feeling umbrage are the IMG comparison, I hope you won’t mind me objecting to your assertion that SJB/ MD and DLS are doing the same thing 

Congrats on the win, state championship, and MNC — all well deserved (I get the TX/ STA angle, but SJB would have my vote)

the only reason, imho, there’s any conflict with socal posters and me is that I don’t think it’s a failure that warrants separate threads (initiated by socal guy) on how DLS is failing and needing to respond.... I just disagree.... am willing to acknowledge wins will be few and far between with status quo going forward, but am heartened that they might happen with a “perfect effort”

[Pops]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

Good point. 

It's a mistake to think that there are two kinds of HSFB football programs in this country, academy teams and regular teams. 

With respect to the rules they are required to follow and their actual practices, IMG is different in kind from SJB, which is different in kind from DLS, which is different in kind from Concord High School. 

Here’s one way I look at it 

5 to 10 years ago (pre IMG, pre WCAC development, and pre MD and SJB putting together rosters of 30+ D1 guys where there were 1 or 2 before) there was about 7 points separation between team #1 and #10, 21 between team #10 and team #100, and 21 points between team #100 and team #1,000

it was a bell curve and to your and @maxchoboian’s points, the teams at the top appeared far more than random due largely to those advantages you speak of 

I think that’s the same landscape today except that a handful (5-10) of teams have raised the ceiling by 2-3 TDs

DLS May be as good of a connector between those teams and the old universe and we are fairly satisfied with our 21 point loss (and I’m sure negro is disappointed he didn’t win by 60 to impress the voters watching DV and STA this week)

another analogy is weaponry — it took hSfb 150 years to go from clubs to guns and these teams have gone nuclear 

[The Guru]

36 minutes ago, Pops said:

If Centennial isn’t a nationally elite team for the past 5/10/15 years, give me the list who is

But they've played Centennial 5 times over a 9 year period.

I did give them a couple of those teams that were stout.

6 hours ago, The Guru said:

DLS beat a couple of really stout Centennial teams but other than that? They beat far lesser teams/programs.

 

[The Guru]

37 minutes ago, Pops said:

easy to mock Servite now but they were undefeated Pac5 champs

I don't credit teams for having a title like that. A team is either really good or not.

[The Guru]

38 minutes ago, Pops said:

westlake is also easy to mock in retrospect — result would have been the same with Santa Margarita which was only other contender

I mocked them at the time.

[dntn31]

21 minutes ago, Pops said:

You are a very reasonable guy so I’ll try to elaborate — and I don’t think i‘M besmirching SJB as much as it appears you do 

don’t take me so literal on academy and IMG comparisons — there are distinctions that I am ignoring in my description — think of “academy” as an abridged version of “those teams that.... however they’re doing it.... are now unabashedly assembling heretofore unseen levels of talent on single teams”

for whatever reason, by whatever means, SJB and 5-10 other schools around the country have the ability and intent to put together basically very good P5 roster levels of talent 

so, while I appreciate you feeling umbrage are the IMG comparison, I hope you won’t mind me objecting to your assertion that SJB/ MD and DLS are doing the same thing 

Congrats on the win, state championship, and MNC — all well deserved (I get the TX/ STA angle, but SJB would have my vote)

the only reason, imho, there’s any conflict with socal posters and me is that I don’t think it’s a failure that warrants separate threads (initiated by socal guy) on how DLS is failing and needing to respond.... I just disagree.... am willing to acknowledge wins will be few and far between with status quo going forward, but am heartened that they might happen with a “perfect effort”

This is all fair. FWIW, I don't take any pleasure in trolling DLS (like some others you are alluding to). I have a ton of respect for DLS and what they do.

You're right that I do take umbrage with lumping in SJB with IMG in terms of the "means". I don't take umbrage in terms of lumping in SJB with IMG in terms of the "results" perhaps with the distinction that IMG literally has a national roster whereas SJB has a roster of kids from SoCal (which is a reflection on the "means"). I do think simply saying "academy teams" is an unfair characterization because other posters may not possess that level of understanding in terms of these nuances and might incorrectly assume that this is an allusion to both the "means" and the "results".

[THEOC89]

1 hour ago, Pops said:

the only reason, imho, there’s any conflict with socal posters and me is that I don’t think it’s a failure that warrants separate threads (initiated by socal guy) on how DLS is failing and needing to respond.... I just disagree.... am willing to acknowledge wins will be few and far between with status quo going forward, but am heartened that they might happen with a “perfect effort”

Outstanding post @Pops.... I see it the same way... What the hell does DLS have to do any Soul Searching for?.... 

DLS’s plan of adding a passing dimension (Coach A Said they Needed it 2 Years Ago), is working... A 21 point loss is what it is but you can see a transformation happening there.... The coaching at DLS has never been better....

I am enjoying watching DLS try to climb this mountain just as much as I enjoyed all the big games during the streak years....

They are doing it their way to accomplish their goal of using football as a tool to develop young men.... If they win championships as a result of their “Perfect Effort” then so be it... 

I read a great Quote on the Spartanhood site that was from one of the Seniors in their Chapel Service before the game.... “Champion's don’t show up to get Everything they Want, They show up to give Everything You Have”....

DLS knows what their “Soul” is, the only thing they are searching for is “The Perfect Game” to beat SJB and MD or whatever team is in the Open with them....

[World Citizen]

3 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

Outstanding post @Pops.... I see it the same way... What the hell does DLS have to do any Soul Searching for?.... 

DLS’s plan is working... A 21 point loss is what it is but you can see a transformation happening there.... The coaching at DLS has never been better....

I am enjoying watching DLS try to climb this mountain just as much as I enjoyed all the big games during the streak years....

They are doing it their way to accomplish their goal of using football as a tool to develop young men.... If they win championships as a result of their “Perfect Effort” then so be it... 

I read a great Quote on the Spartanhood site that was from one of the Seniors in their Chapel Service before the game.... “Champion's don’t show up to get Everything they Want, They show up to give Everything You Have”....

DLS knows what their “Soul” is, the only thing they are searching for is “The Perfect Game” to beat SJB and MD or whatever team is in the Open with them....

This was a much better game than the first quarter and a half was looking.  I thought Hale had happy feet and just missed every throw.  Mechanics were all over the place and it didn't look like they were firing on all cylinders.  Really happy for him that he started making plays.  Mechanics still all over the place but he made the plays anyway.  Got fortunate a few times too.  

I thought the play calling was great and the formations were handled with ease with little to no penalties.  Great scheme by the coaches and wouldn't have thought they could have been able to come back like they did.    

It was a really good game by both teams.

 

[Duckburghsfinest1987]

is Matt Gutierrez the best ever QB to ever come out of DLS? the QB of DLS that put up the best numbers, stats for a DLS QB? or is it someone else?

[THEOC89]

11 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

This was a much better game than the first quarter and a half was looking.  I thought Hale had happy feet and just missed every throw.  Mechanics were all over the place and it didn't look like they were firing on all cylinders.  Really happy for him that he started making plays.  Mechanics still all over the place but he made the plays anyway.  Got fortunate a few times too.  

I thought the play calling was great and the formations were handled with ease with little to no penalties.  Great scheme by the coaches and wouldn't have thought they could have been able to come back like they did.    

It was a really good game by both teams.

 

You are right about his mechanics, But Hale right now reminds me of Garrett last year... You saw flashes of Brilliance with Garrett but he had some obvious flaws....

But you knew after another year in the program, Garrett was going to be a Star this year.... And the Dude was the Brightest Star in the 2 Biggest games DLS played, STA and SJB National Top 5 Teams with tons of D1 recruits.... 

I feel the same way about Hale... Coach A Started this “Passing Modification” with Hale as his QB over last year and this year so they are learning together.... Hale is a great Veer QB being taught how to pass and make plays out of the spread formation and he will continue to get better....

The Kid showed up Big against MD and SJB the last 2 years... I think he has it in him... I see him having a huge year next year and that offense being absolutely electric even more so then this year....

Wether or not DLS can win the Open will come down to What DLS can figure out in Defense....  Hale will have the offense in great shape come SBG time....

[THEOC89]

2 minutes ago, Duckburghsfinest1987 said:

is Matt Gutierrez the best ever QB to ever come out of DLS? the QB of DLS that put up the best numbers, stats for a DLS QB? or is it someone else?

Mike Bastinelli is generally regarded as the “Best” DLS Veer QB ever.... He had a scholarship to USC and Tragically died in a car crash with Darryl Russell...

I would say next to him it was Guiteerez Followed by Anthony Sweeney.... Those to were awesome and true Dual Threat QB’s...

Guiterrez though has to be 1 or 2 based on what he accomplished as as far as what I have seen he was the best passer hands down...

And the Blow our game he engineered against MD may never be matched by another DLS QB....

[Duckburghsfinest1987]

3 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

Mike Bastinelli is generally regarded as the “Best” DLS Veer QB ever.... He had a scholarship to USC and Tragically died in a car crash with Darryl Russell...

I would say next to him it was Guiteerez Followed by Anthony Sweeney.... Those to were awesome and true Dual Threat QB’s...

Guiterrez though has to be 1 or 2 based on what he accomplished as as far as what I have seen he was the best passer hands down...

And the Blow our game he engineered against MD may never be matched by another DLS QB....

another DLS question, which DLS player is the one to last the longest in the NFL, is it DJ Williams?

[THEOC89]

40 minutes ago, Duckburghsfinest1987 said:

another DLS question, which DLS player is the one to last the longest in the NFL, is it DJ Williams?

It has to be either Amani Toomer or Aaron Taylor.... Oddly enough you could call both of them AT....🤣

Too lazy to look it up but Eventhough I have had a couple of IPA’s I will say it has to be one of those 2.... I don’t think MJD had enough years over those guys...🤣🤣

[World Citizen]

48 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

Mike Bastinelli is generally regarded as the “Best” DLS Veer QB ever.... He had a scholarship to USC and Tragically died in a car crash with Darryl Russell...

I would say next to him it was Guiteerez Followed by Anthony Sweeney.... Those to were awesome and true Dual Threat QB’s...

Guiterrez though has to be 1 or 2 based on what he accomplished as as far as what I have seen he was the best passer hands down...

And the Blow our game he engineered against MD may never be matched by another DLS QB....

I like Hale and do think he has the ability to be really good.  He has the same leadership qualities as AS Imo.  If he can get to the point where he doesn't have to even think about his mechanics and just let the game happen for him he will be a consistent force.  Surprised he isn't further along.  But the offense they showed the other night has me very hopeful and hopefully Hale can command it like BY from MD does.  

[World Citizen]

1 hour ago, THEOC89 said:

You are right about his mechanics, But Hale right now reminds me of Garrett last year... You saw flashes of Brilliance with Garrett but he had some obvious flaws....

But you knew after another year in the program, Garrett was going to be a Star this year.... And the Dude was the Brightest Star in the 2 Biggest games DLS played, STA and SJB National Top 5 Teams with tons of D1 recruits.... 

I feel the same way about Hale... Coach A Started this “Passing Modification” with Hale as his QB over last year and this year so they are learning together.... Hale is a great Veer QB being taught how to pass and make plays out of the spread formation and he will continue to get better....

The Kid showed up Big against MD and SJB the last 2 years... I think he has it in him... I see him having a huge year next year and that offense being absolutely electric even more so then this year....

Wether or not DLS can win the Open will come down to What DLS can figure out in Defense....  Hale will have the offense in great shape come SBG time....

The D is always the key thing imo.  DLS was so LB dominant for a few years and haven't been for a while now.  Football is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get and that makes it interesting.

Hale definitely showed up and didn't let early trouble stop him from doing his thing.  His demeanor never changed and never had that look of 'here we go again'.  That is a leader IMO and isn't something you teach.  

I hear you on Garret.  Wasn't sure he was going to be that guy but there is no question he is a really good football player and team mvp.

[Duckburghsfinest1987]

2 hours ago, THEOC89 said:

Mike Bastinelli is generally regarded as the “Best” DLS Veer QB ever.... He had a scholarship to USC and Tragically died in a car crash with Darryl Russell...

I would say next to him it was Guiteerez Followed by Anthony Sweeney.... Those to were awesome and true Dual Threat QB’s...

Guiterrez though has to be 1 or 2 based on what he accomplished as as far as what I have seen he was the best passer hands down...

And the Blow our game he engineered against MD may never be matched by another DLS QB....

 

even though this is like comparing apples and oranges, Bob Ladouceurs winning percentage at DLS is similar, comparable to Gary McKnight's winning percent as the Head Basketball Coach at Mater Dei.