James Harden can't flop his way to a title.

[954gator]

On 5/11/2019 at 1:16 PM, Bestcoast said:

James Harden is a baller though. 

I think Steve Kerr should get more credit.

Excellent coach.   

[THEOC89]

25 minutes ago, ThunderRam said:

 

I made this same argument on a basketball related site and it didn’t go over so well with a few people. Many agreed with me, but those that didn’t found it easier to question my knowledge of basketball rather than be open minded to the truth.

I’ve been following the NBA since the late 70’s. In that time, I’ve never seen a player that gets the benefit of ‘star treatment’ more than Harden. Not Jordan, not Kobe, not Magic, not Bird, not Shaq (who I thought got away with a lot of bullying and dislodging), not Curry, not KD. 

Make no mistake, all those players received a fair amount of latitude from the NBA with regard to rules and foul calls. They all received ‘star treatment’. Jordan got away with carries and the push off on Bryon Russell. Kobe got Mike Bibby called for a foul while elbowing him in the face. No doubt they all got away with some BS.

But ‘star treatment’ has gone to another level in recent years and no player has benefitted from it more than Harden. Rules have changed making it even easier to score. Jordan once averaged 37 ppg when defenses could still ‘hand check’ and the ‘Jordan Rules’ were in place. Guys got knocked to the floor when they came into the lane.

Now they have ‘freedom of movement’ rules and no hand checking whatsoever.

Harden, unlike most others, has signature moves designed just to draw fouls. Cheap fouls. Some of the moves are indeed savvy. But many of them are not. I grew up playing street ball. Hardens the type of guy that would have gotten beat up using the tactics he uses in the NBA now. But I digress....

His signature moves typically include push off with the forearm and 3-4 step travels to get space. I’ve never seen it done as often or as egregiously.

It’s similar to the Spurs style of defense under Popovich. Play super  physical all game long and the refs won’t call all the fouls because the NBA doesn’t want half the team fouling out every game. It’s not good for business. 

Same applies to the NBA officiating it’s stars. If they called these guys for traveling or pushing off or illegal screens as often as they do it, it would be bad for business. They want offensive explosions of 140+ points and 25 threes. So the rules have been tweaked and setup for what we’re seeing now. All of these current players are benefitting. But none more so than Harden. Because this cat has a different mindset than KD or Curry, or Giannis or Kawhi. They don’t tend to intentionally circumvent loopholes in the same way. At least nowhere as often, anyway.

On other sites, I’ve compared Harden to players such as Carmelo Anthony and Tracy McGrady. Like them, he’s a volume scorer. A chucker. His shooting percentages are pretty much average, unlike KD or Curry. 44% overall and 36% from three. Nothing spectacular. But he shoots in such volume and gets bailed out for so many fouls that his scoring numbers can be eye popping at times. 

IMO, the only thing he does above average when he wants to (aside from flail his arms and legs to draw fouls) is create shots for others. But he’s an awful defender and an average shooter. He’s a good player made to be elite because of the star treatment and violations he’s not held accountable for.

Like Carmelo Anthony and Tracy McGrady and even to some extent, Allen Iverson, his style of play wins during the long drawn out regular season, but it isn’t conducive to winning in shorter series against elite competition. 

Same goes for Mike D’Antoni and his system. IMO, the Rockets style of play is what’s wrong with the NBA. Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot a three. Rinse repeat.

Over-reliance on analytics and the three. They missed 26-27 consecutive threes last season and Denver just lost a series last night missing 17 consecutive. Even the trigger happy Warriors understand that they have to score via moving without the ball, screening, passing and taking the easy 2’s that are there. And they do it.

In conclusion, to me, Harden is just another in a long line of volume scorers. Nothing more. Just like in the NFL and MLB, the numbers look more impressive due to years of softening rules for offenses. Carmelo, McGrady and AI would have averaged 35 under these rules too. Considering prime Jordan averaged 37 in a much more offensively difficult era, he likely could average near 50 under the current rules if he wanted. 

Harden is nowhere closer to an all-time great than Carmelo Anthony or Tracy McGrady.

Outstanding Post!!!!... I Couldn't agree more!!!... Harden is the most Overrated Player in the NBA and I think the "Mello" Comparison is right on!!...

If Curry got those ridiculous calls Harden gets he would Average 30+.... Curry gets the least amount respect from the officials of any Superstar who has 2 MVP's and 3 Rings that I have ever seen... 

[nptb17]

1 hour ago, ThunderRam said:

 

I made this same argument on a basketball related site and it didn’t go over so well with a few people. Many agreed with me, but those that didn’t found it easier to question my knowledge of basketball rather than be open minded to the truth.

I’ve been following the NBA since the late 70’s. In that time, I’ve never seen a player that gets the benefit of ‘star treatment’ more than Harden. Not Jordan, not Kobe, not Magic, not Bird, not Shaq (who I thought got away with a lot of bullying and dislodging), not Curry, not KD. 

Make no mistake, all those players received a fair amount of latitude from the NBA with regard to rules and foul calls. They all received ‘star treatment’. Jordan got away with carries and the push off on Bryon Russell. Kobe got Mike Bibby called for a foul while elbowing him in the face. No doubt they all got away with some BS.

But ‘star treatment’ has gone to another level in recent years and no player has benefitted from it more than Harden. Rules have changed making it even easier to score. Jordan once averaged 37 ppg when defenses could still ‘hand check’ and the ‘Jordan Rules’ were in place. Guys got knocked to the floor when they came into the lane.

Now they have ‘freedom of movement’ rules and no hand checking whatsoever.

Harden, unlike most others, has signature moves designed just to draw fouls. Cheap fouls. Some of the moves are indeed savvy. But many of them are not. I grew up playing street ball. Hardens the type of guy that would have gotten beat up using the tactics he uses in the NBA now. But I digress....

His signature moves typically include push off with the forearm and 3-4 step travels to get space. I’ve never seen it done as often or as egregiously.

It’s similar to the Spurs style of defense under Popovich. Play super  physical all game long and the refs won’t call all the fouls because the NBA doesn’t want half the team fouling out every game. It’s not good for business. 

Same applies to the NBA officiating it’s stars. If they called these guys for traveling or pushing off or illegal screens as often as they do it, it would be bad for business. They want offensive explosions of 140+ points and 25 threes. So the rules have been tweaked and setup for what we’re seeing now. All of these current players are benefitting. But none more so than Harden. Because this cat has a different mindset than KD or Curry, or Giannis or Kawhi. They don’t tend to intentionally circumvent loopholes in the same way. At least nowhere as often, anyway.

On other sites, I’ve compared Harden to players such as Carmelo Anthony and Tracy McGrady. Like them, he’s a volume scorer. A chucker. His shooting percentages are pretty much average, unlike KD or Curry. 44% overall and 36% from three. Nothing spectacular. But he shoots in such volume and gets bailed out for so many fouls that his scoring numbers can be eye popping at times. 

IMO, the only thing he does above average when he wants to (aside from flail his arms and legs to draw fouls) is create shots for others. But he’s an awful defender and an average shooter. He’s a good player made to be elite because of the star treatment and violations he’s not held accountable for.

Like Carmelo Anthony and Tracy McGrady and even to some extent, Allen Iverson, his style of play wins during the long drawn out regular season, but it isn’t conducive to winning in shorter series against elite competition. 

Same goes for Mike D’Antoni and his system. IMO, the Rockets style of play is what’s wrong with the NBA. Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot a three. Rinse repeat.

Over-reliance on analytics and the three. They missed 26-27 consecutive threes last season and Denver just lost a series last night missing 17 consecutive. Even the trigger happy Warriors understand that they have to score via moving without the ball, screening, passing and taking the easy 2’s that are there. And they do it.

In conclusion, to me, Harden is just another in a long line of volume scorers. Nothing more. Just like in the NFL and MLB, the numbers look more impressive due to years of softening rules for offenses. Carmelo, McGrady and AI would have averaged 35 under these rules too. Considering prime Jordan averaged 37 in a much more offensively difficult era, he likely could average near 50 under the current rules if he wanted. 

Harden is nowhere closer to an all-time great than Carmelo Anthony or Tracy McGrady.

If Iverson had a team like Harden's he would average close to 40.  Iverson was in constant attack mode much like Russell Westbrook but shot way less jumpers.

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

6 hours ago, Ararar said:

Yeah he is 

so he doesn’t need help from the refs 

not only does it do a disservice to the game but it does a disservice to Harden himself when they suddenly call the game somewhat better during the playoffs 

I think the league as a whole has turned into bit of a WWF/WWE staged kinda thing with these marquee players getting away with shit on the floor. 

With ISO in full play, not much choice it seems. 

BGW

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

6 hours ago, Ararar said:

Yeah he is 

so he doesn’t need help from the refs 

not only does it do a disservice to the game but it does a disservice to Harden himself when they suddenly call the game somewhat better during the playoffs 

Another wrinkle is the defenses stepping up in the playoffs and offensive game plans more conservative. 

BGW

[ThunderRam]

1 hour ago, THEOC89 said:

Curry gets the least amount respect from the officials of any Superstar who has 2 MVP's and 3 Rings that I have ever seen... 

 

As an anti-Warriors guy, I agree. I’m always surprised how much contact that guy receives compared to others that goes uncalled. As frequently and as violently as Westbrook attacks the basket, I don’t think he gets as many calls as he could either.

The above is why I’m continually baffled at the treatment Harden receives in comparison. 

Also, as an anti-Lakers guy, I can fully admit that it’s crazy that Kobe Bryant only won 1 MVP.  I just don’t get how Harden’s game garners more respect. It shouldn’t even receive equal respect.