The Long and Short of DJT

[noonereal]

2 minutes ago, zulu1128 said:

Mexico offered it as well...and 1000 miles closer. 

I doubt many of them lay in their beds at night, scared and hungry, dreaming of getting a new life filled with opportunity in Mexico. 

[zulu1128]

2 minutes ago, noonereal said:

I doubt many of them lay in their beds at night, scared and hungry, dreaming of getting a new life filled with opportunity in Mexico. 

Opportunity isn't on the list of reasons to request asylum. 

[noonereal]

18 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Like all of our great grandparents and grand parents did!!! 

That is what they are doing. 

Our ancestors just walked in, unannounced. (boat)

What is it you think they did?

They got on a boat destined here. No  paperwork of any kind. 

Know what you post about.

[concha]

3 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

Actually, you have that BACKWARD. But I won't submerge myself in the crass name calling you do. As my old English teacher, Pam Mordecai, a Jamaican Jew, used to say, ignorant buffoons use profanity due to their lack of rhetorical skills and vocabulary.

So, in honor of my memory of her, I believe she would probably refer to you as, "a cretinous cur!" But to be clear, that is her speaking from the classroom, not me. 

Blah, blah, blah

Keep clutching your pearls and spouting your intellectually dishonest BS.

What I said is best described as "an accurate description of the perp".

[concha]

2 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

The system may reward illegal immigrants, but it also benefits our citizens in some ways and harms them in other ways. We benefit, for example, from the cheep labor provided by  illegal immigrants.

It sounds like the 1M you refer to are benefiting from those jobs, as you claim here. But so are the 10M or so who are here illegally, since most are employed and are otherwise law-abiding. 

The question is why they shouldn't be rewarded for their hard work and for their admirable virtues, especially if the only relevant difference is that they didn't have the means available to immigrate legally. 

All the illegal cheap labor is a prime reason why we have spent decades with stagnant wages for American working class folks.  It's one of the more duplicitous schemes long perpetrated by the left: virtue signal by claiming to care for poor foreigners while saying the same to their actual poor constituents whose jobs are taken and wages are depressed through illegal immigration.

[Blueliner]

1 hour ago, Sportsnut said:

That comes from a lack of exposure to the other side. Your feeling concerning my ideals that is. 

You can't understand and are unwilling to understand due to your ideology.

That is the drawback.

 

Not true at all. I’ve had plenty of exposure to MANY sides. I just don’t understand why, as an “experienced” man, that you hold onto archaic ideals so tightly. And you appear not to waver an iota for anyone  nor idea. That comes across as self-absorbed and frankly....a little bitter and racist like. 

You’re right. There have been plenty of times where I wasn’t acting very Christian-like here on the boards. But I’m always trying to be a little better today than I was  yesterday. I’m a flawed human. I humbly ask God, daily, to help me with my shortcomings.

And I do have empathy for all kinds of historically demographically-challenge individuals/groups. I’m always willing to learn and get exposure to different thoughts, beliefs, and ideals. It was hard as a kid, but as an adult I embrace that blessing. That’s why I know I’m a good man at the end of the day. 

But. I will take your words to heart today. There’s lessons everwhere if one looks.

[Belly Bob]

4 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

I admire the 10M that have proven themselves albeit illegally. That was then. This is now. All I'm saying is moving forward, we should be more stringent and the legals should be rewarded with entry before the illegals. 

 

2 hours ago, Drummer61 said:

We have been in the "Appeasement of ILLEGAL INVADERS since about the 1955,,,,Both sides and it MUST BE STOPPED NOW USING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SAY NO MORE....Artillery at the border with flyovers first...As I stated before...

At least the arguments are getting better. 

[Belly Bob]

2 hours ago, concha said:

All the illegal cheap labor is a prime reason why we have spent decades with stagnant wages for American working class folks.  It's one of the more duplicitous schemes long perpetrated by the left: virtue signal by claiming to care for poor foreigners while saying the same to their actual poor constituents whose jobs are taken and wages are depressed through illegal immigration.

Is this supposed to count against the claim that illegal immigrants help Americans in some ways?

[RedZone]

3 hours ago, concha said:

All the illegal cheap labor is a prime reason why we have spent decades with stagnant wages for American working class folks. 

Even if this was true (it's bogus) why NOT blame the American companies that hire the cheap labor to pick up their trash, pick fruit, carry lumber, and etc? Ask don trump how all that works...

No response needed..

[concha]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

Is this supposed to count against the claim that illegal immigrants help Americans in some ways?

Yes. Absolutely.

While cheap labor may help some, it hurts many Americans at the lowest income levels.  Wages are depressed. And illegals chew up health care and education funding meant for poor citizens.

Leftists in this country now put foreigners first. Truth.

[noonereal]

4 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

What are you talking about? I have a copy of the manifest of BOTH of my grandfathers when they checked in at Ellis Island. It has their names, birth date, who their US sponsor was and how much money they came over with. Go to EllisIsland.org to find yours. If you can't locate them, it's likely yours came over illegally. Good luck!! 

immigration was “encouraged and virtually unfettered.” Potential immigrants did not have to obtain visas at U.S. consulates before entering the country. Rather, immigrants would simply arrive at ports of entry (such as Ellis Island), where they were inspected and allowed into the country

[RedZone]

5 minutes ago, concha said:

Yes. Absolutely.

While cheap labor may help some, it hurts many Americans at the lowest income levels.  Wages are depressed. And illegals chew up health care and education funding meant for poor citizens.

Leftists in this country now put foreigners first. Truth.

Stephen Miller agrees with you....

Are you Stephen Miller? Can I have a little peek at your forehead?

 

[Belly Bob]

17 minutes ago, concha said:

Yes. Absolutely.

While cheap labor may help some, it hurts many Americans at the lowest income levels.  Wages are depressed. And illegals chew up health care and education funding meant for poor citizens.

Leftists in this country now put foreigners first. Truth.

There you go. That's perfectly consistent with what I claimed.  

The rest must be meant for someone else. 

[World Citizen]

9 hours ago, Blueliner said:

Is it fear or is President Trump pointing out the obvious? I wish there was a better way. When it comes to topics like these, I often am torn because as a Christian, I know to do my best love my fellow man, and live with humility. But I also believe in the laws of our great land. I also respect the laws of other lands. I respect where you and BB are coming from. I do. I just think at the end of the day, I can still love my brothers and sisters from Honduras, and not want them to break the law at the same time.

Great post.  A tip of my cap and a slight bow to you sir. 

As to your first question.  It is Trump and how he talks about it.  First he said there are middle eastern people hiding in the caravan.  Then it was that they are dangerous people coming to storm across the border.  Now it is bring the military and to do what I don't know.  If Trump really wanted to do something that made sense he would send judges and attorneys and social workers down there to expedite the whole process.  These caravans have happened before and will happen in the future, I assume, and our fine border patrol handles these things well.  So it is all about Trump getting his base, and whoever else will listen, fired up and get them to vote.  So imo it really is not the major crisis that warrants the military and the rhetoric is never helpful.  Trump has enough he could be talking about that is positive but he doesn't and the reason why is that he feels he gets more play out of stoking fear/anger.

As to the 2nd bolded.  I also believe that laws are important.  Laws would not prevent me from doing what I thought was the right thing to do though.  I mean if I was the only one at the border and refugees/asylum seekers I could not turn them away.  And I would lose my job.  Lol    I also am not expecting that the caravan has plans to just come and break our laws.  There is no reason for me to think that would be the case.  I mean we know they are coming and they know that we know and we know that they know that we know.  You know?  Lol   We citizens do not put enough pressure on Congress to work and compromise to agree on a immigration law that works.  Especially the House where they can't decide on anything. 

The rest of your post kicks ass (except the Christian part but nobody is perfect ) and I agree.  We mostly agree on this issue it seems.  I think we could go and become Senator's real quick and go fix this shit.  You first. 

I'll leave you with 1 thing that is the truth

 

[RedZone]

11 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

There you go. That's perfectly consistent with what I claimed.  

The rest must be meant for someone else. 

I think a foreigner must have stolen little concha's lunch money as a kid or something.

The dude has major hate issues.

[RedZone]

Somehow crying concha has apppointed himself The Great Defender of the Lazy American Redneck.

It is the internet......

[concha]

12 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

There you go. That's perfectly consistent with what I claimed.  

The rest must be meant for someone else. 

No, meant for you.  I'd hate for you to take the "Hitler was a good guy because he built the autobahns" view of things.

[Belly Bob]

30 minutes ago, concha said:

No, meant for you.  I'd hate for you to take the "Hitler was a good guy because he built the autobahns" view of things.

No, Hitler was a good guy because he enforced the law, crushed the Communists who were making trouble in the streets, brought back manufacturing jobs, and improved wages for real Germans. 

[concha]

3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

No, Hitler was a good guy because he enforced the law, crushed the Communists who were making trouble in the streets, brought back manufacturing jobs, and improved wages for real Germans. 

Well, you've got the good , constructive part down. He was also a teetotaler. Don't forget that.

 

[noonereal]

On 11/3/2018 at 1:52 PM, Blueliner said:

Is it fear or is President Trump pointing out the obvious? I wish there was a better way. When it comes to topics like these, I often am torn because as a Christian, I know to do my best love my fellow man, and live with humility. But I also believe in the laws of our great land. I also respect the laws of other lands. I respect where you and BB are coming from. I do. I just think at the end of the day, I can still love my brothers and sisters from Honduras, and not want them to break the law at the same time.

Hard to disagree and I have no remedy. I just think....

When you see someone scared, I mean real scared. Terrified to the point where they zone out. As a police officer often does, . That far off stare with face in almost a contorted state and they are unresponsive as their mind is burning up trying to divert thought from what is or just occurred. 

I think of all the people in this caravan that are there to avoid this experience again. I just can't put "proper process" ahead of human compassion at that point. 

Like I said, I have no remedy but I do know a few things. 

I know the debate should not be about how to repel them but rather how to help them. 

I also know that this is nothing near the crisis Trump is "staging" it as. That this is about politics, policies of fear. 

To think people who fled in terror will meet military refusal in their quest for safety, weakened and hungry... well, I just know Trump and his followers are wrong. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Belly Bob]

5 hours ago, concha said:

Well, you've got the good , constructive part down. He was also a teetotaler. Don't forget that.

You're on the right track, but the joke doesn't quite work, because it's not about his accomplishments in office. 

[Belly Bob]

1 minute ago, noonereal said:

[...]

To think people who fled in terror will meet military refusal in their quest for safety, weakened and hungry... well, I just know Trump and his followers are wrong. 

The Christian way. It's just like the story about the good Samaritan Jesus used to tell.

[World Citizen]

2 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

The Christian way. It's just like the story about the good Samaritan Jesus used to tell.

And Jesus was all about following the law of the land.  He couldn't stand law breakers and constantly made sure they were brought to the authorities to face the consequences.  

I'm not a Christian though so I could be wrong about this.  

 

[Belly Bob]

46 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

And Jesus was all about following the law of the land.  He couldn't stand law breakers and constantly made sure they were brought to the authorities to face the consequences.  

I'm not a Christian though so I could be wrong about this.  

That's right. The really important messages were put the Jews first, and stone the law-breakers. 

That was Jesus's radical view, for which he was tried and executed. That's how we bring God's kingdom to Earth. 

[Belly Bob]

On 11/3/2018 at 1:52 PM, Blueliner said:

Is it fear or is President Trump pointing out the obvious? I wish there was a better way. When it comes to topics like these, I often am torn because as a Christian, I know to do my best love my fellow man, and live with humility. But I also believe in the laws of our great land. I also respect the laws of other lands. I respect where you and BB are coming from. I do. I just think at the end of the day, I can still love my brothers and sisters from Honduras, and not want them to break the law at the same time.

Good post. 

I think that's part of what makes it a hard issue. There is a conflict between the virtue of benevolence -- and in particular the Christian virtue of Pauline charity or universal love -- and respect for laws that have been properly made by democratically elected officials.