The Long and Short of DJT

[RedZone]

1 hour ago, concha said:

I frankly don't give a rat's ass what your pearl-clutching, virtue-signaling mind believes.  You are ridiculous, parading around around acting like Trump is some Hitleresque dictator marching minorities - citizens and non - to camps for the slaughter and hoping to slaughter caravans of people.

I'd send you a clown hat, big floppy shoes and a red nose that honks, but that would require spending money on you.

We will send you and stephen miller a brand new hood.

It's really NO wonder your wife bailed on you.

You are a delusional little prick.

 

[RedZone]

3 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

I find it hard to believe anything could touch your stone, cold heart. It probably explains a lot about your personal situation. Of course I realize you were trying to be sarcastic. The irony is that your attempt, in itself, so opens up windows into your soul. 

He has no personal situation other than this forum. He is Mr Lonely.

The POS won't even denounce stephen miller or the rest of them.

Fuck him....

 

 

[Belly Bob]

17 hours ago, Blueliner said:

Maybe they should just turn around and complete the lawful citizenship process. Just a thought. 

Has it occurred to you that that might not be a real option for them?

You might ask yourself, "Why would they decide to walk 1,000 miles, knowing that they might be turned back at the end of it, when they could have just stayed home and filled out some paperwork?"

[Belly Bob]

13 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Like all of our great grandparents and grand parents did!!! Those that were moral, that is. 

The policies may have been significantly different then. It may have been considerably easier to immigrate lawfully then than it is now. So that option may no longer be available to would be immigrants. That might be a pretty good explanation of why so many risk so much to come here illegally. 

What's your best guess, as someone who has thought so carefully about this topic, as to why these people wouldn't prefer to take the legal route? 

[Bormio]

27 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

The policies may have been significantly different then. It may have been considerably easier to immigrate lawfully then than it is now. So that option may no longer be available to would be immigrants. That might be a pretty good explanation of why so many risk so much to come here illegally. 

What's your best guess, as someone who has thought so carefully about this topic, as to why these people wouldn't prefer to take the legal route? 

It was a different time.  The US was trying to populate the country 150 years ago.  Fact is wanting to come here is not the sole factor - we do not have open borders. We have limits on immigration for very good reasons, and people wishing to come here need to respect our laws.  

 

 

 

[Belly Bob]

32 minutes ago, Bormio said:

It was a different time.  The US was trying to populate the country 150 years ago.  Fact is wanting to come here is not the sole factor - we do not have open borders. We have limits on immigration for very good reasons, and people wishing to come here need to respect our laws.  

Right. 

So let's all stop saying that they should have just taken the legal means of immigration, as if that was a real option for them.

People who wish to come here have a reason to respect our laws, but they may have even stronger reasons to break them -- just like the slaves had reasons to respect the laws, but even stronger reasons to break them.

[Belly Bob]

1 minute ago, GardenStateBaller said:

It's obviously money-related. Many can't afford the high legal costs involved. Currently our economy has 7M jobs available to fill. Come in the right and just way to be considered for these jobs. A "great" country should be difficult to get into. That's what'll continue to make it great. Nothing great in life should come easy to anyone. 

Good.

So the legal option isn't a real option for many of them. So let's all stop saying that it is. 

[concha]

The fact of just being poor is not grounds for asylum.  We have set up a system that rewards people for violating our sovereignty. And our own citizens suffer for it.  Add to that that under international norms for asylum, these people should have stopped in Mexico, which offered them help.

[DarterBlue]

4 hours ago, concha said:

This buffoon has the balls to call others a disgrace while claiming our president wants to slaughter people.

What a jackass.

Actually, you have that BACKWARD. But I won't submerge myself in the crass name calling you do. As my old English teacher, Pam Mordecai, a Jamaican Jew, used to say, ignorant buffoons use profanity due to their lack of rhetorical skills and vocabulary.

So, in honor of my memory of her, I believe she would probably refer to you as, "a cretinous cur!" But to be clear, that is her speaking from the classroom, not me. 

[World Citizen]

16 hours ago, zulu1128 said:

It would be helpful to aid them in understanding that walking 1000 miles in the heat is a waste of their time and energy. 

I'm sure they have heard Trump and are aware of the situation and They still come.  So that help to inform them has already happened and is not much of a solution anyway.  

Idk the best way to go about helping to fix/mitigate/prevent any of this but I'm sure it isn't making them out to be bad people who should be feared.  

 

[Belly Bob]

2 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Correct. Neither is the alternative option, which is illegal. And lying about asylum to game the broken system is also unacceptable. 

Remember, over 1M immigrants per year do it the RIGHT way. They should be the ones that benefit from these open jobs. They've worked hard to make their dreams come true. They should be the ones that are rewarded. 

 

2 hours ago, concha said:

The fact of just being poor is not grounds for asylum.  We have set up a system that rewards people for violating our sovereignty. And our own citizens suffer for it.  [...]

 

2 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Great points. The 1M legal immigrants that are entering annually are already proving that they're ethical, hard working and great savers. Characteristics that mirror what being an American is all about. They're proving their desirability long before they enter our borders. And they're being rewarded for these admirable virtues. 

The system may reward illegal immigrants, but it also benefits our citizens in some ways and harms them in other ways. We benefit, for example, from the cheep labor provided by  illegal immigrants.

It sounds like the 1M you refer to are benefiting from those jobs, as you claim here. But so are the 10M or so who are here illegally, since most are employed and are otherwise law-abiding. 

The question is why they shouldn't be rewarded for their hard work and for their admirable virtues, especially if the only relevant difference is that they didn't have the means available to immigrate legally. 

[RedZone]

14 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

I'm sure they have heard Trump and are aware of the situation and They still come.  So that help to inform them has already happened and is not much of a solution anyway.  

Idk the best way to go about helping to fix/mitigate/prevent any of this but I'm sure it isn't making them out to be bad people who should be feared.  

 

You see trump's new ad?

Total disgrace and insult to anyone that passed the 6th grade.

Sure would be great if wing nut was as concerned about education as they are immigration.

#keepthemdumb

[Belly Bob]

21 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

I'm sure they have heard Trump and are aware of the situation and They still come.  So that help to inform them has already happened and is not much of a solution anyway.  

Idk the best way to go about helping to fix/mitigate/prevent any of this but I'm sure it isn't making them out to be bad people who should be feared.  

Or worse people than the millions of Americans who are here legally and who have all the rights and privileges of citizenship but who don't work and who don't take care of their kids and who commit crimes and who crowd the schools but learn nothing and who collect welfare and who don't pay for their medical bills etc.

What's the deep and important difference? At least illegals bust their assess in the fields and in the kitchens and on construction sites etc. That's not the whole story, I know, but it's something. 

[World Citizen]

Just now, Belly Bob said:

Or worse people than the millions of Americans who are here legally and who have all the rights and privileges of citizenship but who don't work and who don't take care of their kids and who commit crimes and who crowd the schools but learn nothing and who collect welfare and who don't pay for their medical bills etc.

What's the deep and important difference? At least illegals bust their assess in the fields and in the kitchens and on construction sites etc. That's the whole story, I know, but it's something. 

I've met many people from these places and all I've seen is they are hard working, love their families and are appreciative of being here.  Probably a few exceptions of course but like you said, some here are a much bigger drag on this country.  And I wouldn't treat them like some want to treat these people in a caravan.  

I seriously doubt that on their death bed they are going to be saying to themselves "boy, I'm glad those caravan people couldn't come to America and vote Democrat".  Its just Not what is important imo.  How much you have loved and have been loved is more likely.  

[Blueliner]

3 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

Has it occurred to you that that might not be a real option for them?

You might ask yourself, "Why would they decide to walk 1,000 miles, knowing that they might be turned back at the end of it, when they could just stay home and fill out some paperwork?"

Of course it has occurred to me. As I've said, I'm a compassionate and patient man. But I have my limits. I get it, Honduras isn't exactly a vacation destination. But these "asylum seekers" are hell bent on coming to the US by traveling over 1000 miles through Mexico...a country that has offered many of them asylum...which they've declined. To me, this reeks of illegals taking advantage of the historically lightly-enforced US immigration policy and law. And it also reeks of a political ploy by the US/global left.

Food for thought. The US naturalized 1.5 million internationals in 2017. That's about 50% more than President Obama's administration ever naturalized. So, if there is a will, there's a way. I think that we should enforce our current law, and adjust them down the road if this isn't what we want as a country. The US should help out, and we do. But she isn't responsible for other country's problems. BB, as a sovereign nation, we need to have law, order, and stand on principle.

The way that I see in now is that these individuals have had multiple opportunities to improve their lives just by getting into Mexico and out of Honduras. It's now on them as what they get or not get once they get to the US border.

[Blueliner]

35 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

I'm sure they have heard Trump and are aware of the situation and They still come.  So that help to inform them has already happened and is not much of a solution anyway.  

Idk the best way to go about helping to fix/mitigate/prevent any of this but I'm sure it isn't making them out to be bad people who should be feared.  

 

Is it fear or is President Trump pointing out the obvious? I wish there was a better way. When it comes to topics like these, I often am torn because as a Christian, I know to do my best love my fellow man, and live with humility. But I also believe in the laws of our great land. I also respect the laws of other lands. I respect where you and BB are coming from. I do. I just think at the end of the day, I can still love my brothers and sisters from Honduras, and not want them to break the law at the same time.

[Blueliner]

2 minutes ago, Sportsnut said:

You lie. 

Many have accepted the offers and are staying put. The number has dwindled by several thousand. 

Trumps has you tards running scared of women and children. 

How stupid can one man be?

Very I see.

Sorry, champ. Lying isn't something that I'm very good at. But I do appreciate your opinion....even if you're delusional most times. LOL! Scared of the 75% MEN-Hondurans caravan? Not so much, champ. Your far left hate-monger friends have taught you well.

[Belly Bob]

19 minutes ago, Blueliner said:

Of course it has occurred to me. As I've said, I'm a compassionate and patient man. But I have my limits. I get it, Honduras isn't exactly a vacation destination. But these "asylum seekers" are hell bent on coming to the US by traveling over 1000 miles through Mexico...a country that has offered many of them asylum...which they've declined. To me, this reeks of illegals taking advantage of the historically lightly-enforced US immigration policy and law. And it also reeks of a political ploy by the US/global left.

Food for thought. The US naturalized 1.5 million internationals in 2017. That's about 50% more than President Obama's administration ever naturalized. So, if there is a will, there's a way. I think that we should enforce our current law, and adjust them down the road if this isn't what we want as a country. The US should help out, and we do. But she isn't responsible for other country's problems. BB, as a sovereign nation, we need to have law, order, and stand on principle.

[...]

I'm not particularly interested in this one event, but in what would justify stronger border policies in general.

And I don't really care about political ploys from one side or the other, since I don't belong to any party, since I'd rather do my own thinking. Whether it's a ploy or not doesn't affect any of the important issues. 

I never said that the US is responsible for other countries' problems. I said that we should have some principled reasons for distinguishing those who get the rights and privileges of citizenship from those who don't; and I've said that we should be careful about violating the basic human right of movement, which all human beings have by virtue of their being human beings.

We need to have just laws and stand on the right principles. That's what I'm asking after. 

[Blueliner]

Just now, Sportsnut said:

You have not made one christian like statement since you have been here. 

 

You're not going to cry are you? I even love YOU, SN. I may even like you if we met. But from on this side of my computer, you're ideologies are completely foreign to me. You don't have anything that I want. And trust me, I could be a lot worse than I am on this board if I followed my emotion rather than my faith at half the stuff I read here in OT.

[Blueliner]

1 minute ago, Sportsnut said:

Common sense applies to those with enough brain matter to comprehend.

Unfortunately, you are excluded.

Whatever.

[Blueliner]

2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I'm not particularly interested in this one event, but in what would justify stronger border policies in general.

And I don't really care about political ploys from one side or the other, since I don't belong to any one party and don't want to belong to any party, since I'd rather do my own thinking. Whether it's a ploy or not doesn't affect any of the important issues. 

I never said that the US is responsible for other countries's problems. I said that we should have some principled reasons for distinguishing those who get the rights and privileges of citizenship from those who don't; and I've said that we should be careful about violating the basic human right of movement, which all human beings have by virtue of their being human beings.

We need to have just laws and stand on the right principles. That's what I'm asking after. 

Good post. But I particularly like the bolded. I could be on board with this. I believe that you and I are on the same page (or at least close) when it comes to law and basic human rights. I also respect that you're not speaking in absolutes. This topic is never absolute one way or the other.

[zulu1128]

1 hour ago, World Citizen said:

I'm sure they have heard Trump and are aware of the situation and They still come.  So that help to inform them has already happened and is not much of a solution anyway.  

Idk the best way to go about helping to fix/mitigate/prevent any of this but I'm sure it isn't making them out to be bad people who should be feared.  

 

Well, the easiest way would be for them to accept Mexico's offer of asylum. Yet, here we are. 

[noonereal]

18 hours ago, zulu1128 said:

It would be helpful to aid them in understanding that walking 1000 miles in the heat is a waste of their time and energy. 

Hard to convince desperate folks who have long heard of the compassion and safe harbor we have offered. 

But yes, like you I wish we could spare them the effort and disappointment. 

[zulu1128]

1 minute ago, noonereal said:

Hard to convince desperate folks who have long heard of the compassion and safe harbor we have offered. 

But yes, like you I wish we could spare them the effort and disappointment. 

Mexico offered it as well...and 1000 miles closer. 

[zulu1128]

5 minutes ago, Sportsnut said:

INSKEEP: You offered them refugee status, I believe you said. And yet a leader of this group, Sin Fronteras, Without Borders, that is involved in organizing this caravan seemed dubious of that offer and indicated their suspicion that the majority of people who are invited to apply for asylum would ultimately be rejected and deported. Is that actually what tends to happen with asylum seekers?

GUTIERREZ: Well, out of - the number that we have is around 3,500 people. Out of those, we have 1,895 people that have requested - presented a request for refugee status - 1,435 of them are being processed, and about 422 have actually been repatriated to the states. So right now it's unclear. I think that a lot of them will, in fact, end up requesting the status because it's a very generous offer on the part of the Mexican government.

With the advent of the computer, we have info at the tips of our fingers yet some still don't have sense enough to find their own answers to such easily found facts. 

Okay?