HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Why should you ever get your rights back when you failed society in some kind of heinous way.......I also believe we do not use the death penalty enough in this country Because a prison sentence is their price they’ve paid. They are denied rights for that duration. If they are a lifer then of course rights are lost for ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: Because a prison sentence is their price they’ve paid. They are denied rights for that duration. If they are a lifer then of course rights are lost for ever. And how many prison sentences are light or they get out early. No thanks. You screwed up and hurt society in some way. You no longer have a voice in the direction of this country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 12 hours ago, Belly Bob said: I asked you to give an argument for your view, which you haven't done. You stated I never support my views, which is patently untrue. As regards the question of birthright citizenship, perhaps the man behind the 14th amendment is the best source: “...that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.” - Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan (author of the 14th amendment) Forget the moral and common sense view that conferring reward upon illegal activity is hardly the purpose of government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 53 minutes ago, concha said: You stated I never support my views, which is patently untrue. As regards the question of birthright citizenship, perhaps the man behind the 14th amendment is the best source: “...that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.” - Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan (author of the 14th amendment) Forget the moral and common sense view that conferring reward upon illegal activity is hardly the purpose of government. That's not an argument for the view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: That's not an argument for the view. Kinda seems like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: Kinda seems like it is. Lay it out for me. What are the premises? What's its form? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, concha said: Forget the moral and common sense view that conferring reward upon illegal activity is hardly the purpose of government. You must've forgotten that the question is about the rights and privileges of those born. You don't really believe that infants break the law. And you don't really believe that giving birth or being born are criminal acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolebull813 Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Anything that happens during an illegal's time here should be null and void. Anchor babies were born illegally here. They should not have a right to be here. Hearing the caravan has a decent amount of pregnant women. I pray Republicans keep power and draw up legislation to get all these damn illegals the hell outta here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said: Anything that happens during an illegal's time here should be null and void. Anchor babies were born illegally here. They should not have a right to be here. Hearing the caravan has a decent amount of pregnant women. I pray Republicans keep power and draw up legislation to get all these damn illegals the hell outta here. Let's have faith that they will not make it into this country......the military is on it's way and the border patrol is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Nolebull813 said: Anything that happens during an illegal's time here should be null and void. Anchor babies were born illegally here. They should not have a right to be here. But that's not the law. Otherwise there would be no reason for Trump to issue an EO. What about you? Can you give an argument in support of your view on what grounds rights? Or is this just more of the same: strong opinions without much behind them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 48 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: But that's not the law. Otherwise there would be no reason for Trump to issue an EO. What about you? Can you give an argument in support of your view on what grounds rights? Or is this just more of the same: strong opinions without much behind them? If by the law meaning the 14th amendment it doeant apply to foreigners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: If by the law meaning the 14th amendment it doeant apply to foreigners Oh, I see. What's the point of the EO then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Oh, I see. What's the point of the EO then? To force the 14th amendment to be finally be interpreted by the SC. Once the SC rules that the 14th amendment doesnt apply to foreigners as it is written he can go ahead and stop illegals from coming here and having kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 These bozo clowns are as great with the 14th amendment as they are with the 2nd amendment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: To force the 14th amendment to be finally be interpreted by the SC. Once the SC rules that the 14th amendment doesnt apply to foreigners as it is written he can go ahead and stop illegals from coming here and having kids You must mean "re-interpreted". It has already been interpreted, which is why the children of foreigners born here are given American citizenship. That is the current interpretation of the law, which is why it so enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: You must mean "re-interpreted". It has already been interpreted, which is why the children of foreigners born here are given American citizenship. That is the current interpretation of the law, which is why it so enforced. After looking it has never been brought up when it comes to foreigners under the 14th amendment. The cases that were brought up had to do with slaves and their rights under the 14th amendment which is what the 14th was written for. I looked quickly I didnt see one case where a foreigner was protected under the 14th. Now that's why the EO will be signed challenged taken to the SC. Same like the travel ban. Everyone said trump cant do it. When it got to the SC turns out he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 In other landmark rulings, the Supreme Court has cited the 14th Amendment in cases involving the use of contraception (1965’s Griswold v. Connecticut), interracial marriage (1967’s Loving v. Virginia), abortion (1973’s Roe v. Wade), a highly contested presidential election (2000’s Bush v. Gore), gun rights (2010’s McDonald v. Chicago) and same-sex marriage (2015’s Obergefell v. Hodges). none of that pertains to foreigners. Now well see if the 14th applies to them. Will take time and I'm sure thousands of illegals will have kids here by the time its interpreted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 The sentence that follows specifies citizen rights: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." foreigners are not citizens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: After looking it has never been brought up when it comes to foreigners under the 14th amendment. The cases that were brought up had to do with slaves and their rights under the 14th amendment which is what the 14th was written for. I looked quickly I didnt see one case where a foreigner was protected under the 14th. Now that's why the EO will be signed challenged taken to the SC. Same like the travel ban. Everyone said trump cant do it. When it got to the SC turns out he can. You might want to look again. The courts have been appealing to a case from the late 1800s involving Chinese immigrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: The sentence that follows specifies citizen rights: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." foreigners are not citizens I think you're getting confused. The question is whether their children are (and why) when their children are born here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: You might want to look again. The courts have been appealing to a case from the late 1800s involving Chinese immigrants. Can you give me the case? And I'll gladly look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, Belly Bob said: I think you're getting confused. The question is whether their children are (and why) when their children are born here. I believe the answer will be no. They are not. If their parents are not citizens their children cannot be either. Cant wait for this to get to the SC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Can you give me the case? And I'll gladly look Wong Kim Ark -- something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Belly Bob said: Wong Kim Ark -- something like that Ok let me take a look thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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