There is NO longer "we the people".

[zulu1128]

1 minute ago, Belly Bob said:

This is way too important, my man.

Imagine how we could streamline legal hearings. Imagine how simple trials would be where the issue at hand is the motive for the alleged crime.

All we'd have to do is ask.

It's breathtaking in its simplicity.

You’re getting awfully wound up over just getting some basic facts wrong. 

[Belly Bob]

Thank you for the discourse. 

It's annoying when the OT forum is saturated in political threads that have very little to offer, but once you talk to the posters, you find out that there's much more than what meets the eye.

3K more please. 

[Belly Bob]

11 minutes ago, zulu1128 said:

You’re getting awfully wound up over just getting some basic facts wrong. 

No, I'm grateful for the insight. 

He said he attacked the government because of their activities at Waco and Ruby Ridge in that one letter.

So he had no other motives.

You are a genius, sir.

I'll be looking to you for your take on the issues of the day. 

[World Citizen]

5 hours ago, Blueliner said:

I was just sitting here reflecting a bit.

After reading that I can't get the image out of my head of you being attached to handlebars or the back of a bike seat acting as a reflector. 

 Despite our differences at times, ALL of you guys are alright in my book.

You are cool to talk to and I appreciate that you put some thought and reasoning for your views.  Interestingly, your reasoning has led me to better understand where you and the right are coming from.  Pretty cool how when you do not insult someone they are able to listen better instead of being defensive. 

 I would hope that this political onslaught that ALL of us have participated in over the past 10-20 years would make us stronger at the end of the day.

In my opinion, the left just needs to relax and not be so damn angry 24/7 because they didn’t get their way. They are sabotaging the whole damn process without having a clue as to what Kavanaugh will do in he future. He’s a good man.

Relaxing is probably not going to happen.  You must understand where the left is coming from (without the talking points).  I blame Newt Gingrich (sp?) for setting us on a path of political ill will, but I'll start with Obama.  Before he took office the Republicans got together and made a pact to not give Obama one single victory and make him a one term president.  Not a very good start.  At that time I thought it was an outrageous thing to do and I didn't see how that was going to helpful for our country.  In fact it seems that the opposite of helpful must follow that thinking.  Everything Obama wanted to do they opposed.  Even things they had previously been supportive of they did an about face and fought everything.  And while they were doing that they attributed bad motives to his policies.  The citizens on the right who didn't like Obama were much worse in their attributing bad motives and saying he was Muslim, not born here, etc.  Nobody, except McCain during 08 Presidential Campaign. stood up and tried to push back against this.  The Republicans should have told Trump to stfu when he was saying Obama wasn't born here. 

The Republicans used to be a different party.  Remember when congress use to compromise and some fights you won and others you lost but the fight was fair.  As fair as politics can be I suppose.  Since the Tea Party, any compromise has been seen as a death sentence where if they give an inch they lose their job. 

As far as the SC goes, they stole one from Obama.  He was President and the Republicans changed the game and would not even give Garland a hearing.  He had 11 months left in his Presidency.  The Democrats have a right to be pissed about that don't you think.  I don't think it says a President only has 3 years and 1 month in order to pick a SCJ.  Gorsich didn't have the problem that Kavanaugh did.  The reason is that Kavanaugh had a past that came back to him.  He would have been better to admit to his drinking and deny ever doing what she said he did.  He didn't though and instead looked like a guilty man who probably did these things.  It was never about finding proof of his guilt but finding his character.  From where I stand, he doesn't have any.  And his comment "what comes around goes around" and his tirade against Democrats saying it was all bc of losing the election is so far below what we should expect of a SCJ.  Pick another person for god's sake.  Add in his crying and he came off as a partisan spoiled little dick.    But Trump is President and it is his choice just don't expect Democrats to sit on our hands.  We march and bitch, it's what we have done in this country from the start. 

And has life for Is REALLY gotten worse under Trump? I personally don’t think so unless you’re an illegal. We all need to stop being babies when we don’t gebour way if we want to survive as a country. THIS is a fork in the road for us. How are we going to handle it? .....

Life has not gotten worse for me personally.  I am not dependent on any President or party for the quality of my life.  I alone am responsible for my happiness.  Having said that, Trump has done a great deal of damage that will take years to reverse.  Environmental, our leadership in the world, his divisiveness, his attaching individual citizens, his not taking the time to learn about the world or listen to those who know more than he does, his constant lying to us (this shows such a lack of respect that I can't get past it and assume that everything he says is a lie), he is a sexual predator and proud of it, he is a racist, his taking away health coverage without any replacement, he just doesn't care about anything but himself.  Without placing any judgment, It's just the way he is. 

The unemployment is good and if you have the money to play with the stock market things are good.  That is not the reality for most of the country though.  Any good he has done is greatly offset by the damage.  His deregulating the protections of our water and air and putting people at serious health risk because of it.  The only reason being is to help big business.  They do not need the help and they have been doing fine making record profits.  It is a shame that Republicans didn't work with Obama and make Obamacare work.  We spend 1/5 on health care and it's only getting bigger.  Trump has not been helpful at all. 

I want to suggest one thing concerning the idea that Democrats think all Republicans are racist.  This goes for anybody who is not a racist, be it Dem or Repub or whatever.  If you are a Republican and you are not a racist, then nobody is talking about you.  If you hear that 'Republicans are all racist', just assume that they are not talking to you but are talking to others who are.  It's pretty simple and it's just a slight change of thinking.  You must acknowledge that Trump has not been very welcoming to POC and many people that either support his views or simply do not push back are complicit in a way.  But if your not racist, which I know you are not, do not assume someone is talking to you. 

Same thing for all white people who are not racist.  When they hear that white people are racist, they should assume that the person who says that must be talking about those white people who are racist and not them personally.  I mean if your not, they can't be talking about you so there is no need to get defensive. 

But those who argue and say bullshit when someone is telling you their experience and what it's like to walk in their shoes and then say that they do not hold racist views are suspect.  Surely you have seen this. 

Anyway, keep up the great posts. 

How did DLS look against MV?  Did Hale play?  Give me the details.

[Belly Bob]

20 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

[...]

How did DLS look against MV?  Did Hale play?  Give me the details.

I'm still working through the game myself.

But Hale did play.

DLS's first offensive play was a handoff to Garrett that went about 70 yards for a TD.

DLS's second offensive play was a pass to Fosky (you know the one) that went about 45 yards for a TD.

14-0 early in 1Q. I'll get back to you if someone else doesn't first.

But I'm off to watch the fights. 

[Blueliner]

7 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

I hate to keep making the same point, but how is what the Left is doing different from what the Right has done in the past?

I don't even follow politics, but I remember the Right claiming that Obama was a secret Muslim and not even an American citizen etc.

The Right is correct about the Left and wrong about themselves, and same is true of the Left. 

And I should say that I like you also, despite any differences we may have, because you take the time to lay out your case with me, which I appreciate. 

Point taken. The right has done it in the past. But it’s the left doing it...right now. It’s time to start leading by example. They’ve gotta figure out how to co-exist while being on the “losing” end. It’s cyclical. One day down the road the showbwill likely be in the other foot and the right will have to co-exist while being in the “losing” end. We’ve got to figure out a way to make it not about wins and losses to survive as a country.  IMHO.

[Blueliner]

4 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Stop this nonsense and turn on FNC. The rally from Kansas has started!! WE THE PEOPLE that matter are tuning in!! 

An amazing rally and a fantadtic interview with the President by Judge Jeanine. 

[Blueliner]

2 hours ago, World Citizen said:

I want to suggest one thing concerning the idea that Democrats think all Republicans are racist.  This goes for anybody who is not a racist, be it Dem or Repub or whatever.  If you are a Republican and you are not a racist, then nobody is talking about you.  If you hear that 'Republicans are all racist', just assume that they are not talking to you but are talking to others who are.  It's pretty simple and it's just a slight change of thinking.  You must acknowledge that Trump has not been very welcoming to POC and many people that either support his views or simply do not push back are complicit in a way.  But if your not racist, which I know you are not, do not assume someone is talking to you. 

Same thing for all white people who are not racist.  When they hear that white people are racist, they should assume that the person who says that must be talking about those white people who are racist and not them personally.  I mean if your not, they can't be talking about you so there is no need to get defensive. 

But those who argue and say bullshit when someone is telling you their experience and what it's like to walk in their shoes and then say that they do not hold racist views are suspect.  Surely you have seen this. 

Anyway, keep up the great posts. 

How did DLS look against MV?  Did Hale play?  Give me the details.

You’re a good dude, and I appreciate this post. I tell ya, although I’m pretty darn happy right now...especially for Justice Kavanaugh and his family, I know that there’s a lot of people that aren’t. I love my fellow man, so when my people hurt, I hurt in some small way.  I know that sounds lame, but it’s true. One can be empathetic and compassionate and be conservative.👍

I was st the game. DLS needs to somehow get out of the EBAL. As BB said, DLS was up 28-0 after the first quarter. They scored all if their TDs on about 8-10 plays. 48-0 at half. Final was 55-0. MV is the best of the rest of the EBAL. Not sure what kind of bad things Sparty is going to go to SRV, Cal, and Foothill. These massacres aren’t good for anyone. They certainly aren’t preparing DLS for SoCal power.

Hale played and played well. Everyone “played well”. Tasi was back too. Like I said, this game was literally zero challenge for DLS. And I’m sure MV wasn’t enjoying that.

You’d better come down for the playoffs!

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, Blueliner said:

You’re a good dude, and I appreciate this post. I tell ya, although I’m pretty darn happy right now...especially for Justice Kavanaugh and his family, I know that there’s a lot of people that aren’t. I love my fellow man, so when my people hurt, I hurt in some small way.  I know that sounds lame, but it’s true. One can be empathetic and compassionate and be conservative.👍

 

I guess I have mixed feelings about the judge.

I don't know what happened between him and that woman when they were teenagers.

But I don't think it's a great idea to judge a man's character by how much he drank when he was 17 or by what he may have written in a yearbook or even by a very serious allegation made against him unless it can be confirmed.

On the other hand, it would be better, all else being equal, if our judge didn't have a rape allegation hanging over his head.

 

[concha]

Looking at SCOTUS, is it any mystery why of the nine justices, the closest four confirmation votes (by far) are all Republican appointees?

Ideology over qualifications.

[AztecPadre]

On 10/5/2018 at 2:33 PM, HSFBfan said:

Considering when the constitution was written and such. Blacks weren't people. Women were 2nd class citizens and weren't considered much of anything. We fought wars with the native Americans. 

You know exactly who it was written for. The white Europeans that were here. And there is no 2 ways around it.

@blueliner you liked this sick racist post?  Really?

[Nolebull813]

3 minutes ago, AztecPadre said:

@blueliner you liked this sick racist post?  Really?

He is putting into context as how people were viewed back then. 

No one agrees or supports it. It's just how it was for some people. Nothing to be proud of 

[Belly Bob]

On 10/8/2018 at 12:57 PM, Nolebull813 said:

He is putting into context as how people were viewed back then. 

No one agrees or supports it. It's just how it was for some people. Nothing to be proud of 

It was in response to my claim that Americans were not united in their values even at the very beginning.

So pick: either black people were Americans and Americans were not unified in their values, or else black people were not Americans, in which case their disagreement is irrelevant to the question at hand.

If you go with the latter view, then you're saying (whether you yourself realize it or not) that whether someone is an American ultimately depends on how they happen to be viewed by some other group of people. And that view doesn't have a whole lot going for it. Hopefully there are deeper reasons than that for including some and excluding others. 

Everyone agrees that black people were not always considered as such.

So what point does that fact serve in the discussion? Or is it just more of nothing? 

[Blueliner]

10 hours ago, AztecPadre said:

@blueliner you liked this sick racist post?  Really?

AP. I took it as that’s how it used to be if we like it or not. We have to own it. But.... It doesn’t have to be way going forward. I think HSFB has good intentions with that comment, but experienced unintended consequences based on the way it was described. You know I’m not a racist...hope you do at least 😊

[Horsefly]

6 hours ago, Blueliner said:

AP. I took it as that’s how it used to be if we like it or not. We have to own it. But.... It doesn’t have to be way going forward. I think HSFB has good intentions with that comment, but experienced unintended consequences based on the way it was described. You know I’m not a racist...hope you do at least 😊

Didn’t you say you are biracial or am I confusing you with someone else? 

[World Citizen]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:27 PM, Blueliner said:

An amazing rally and a fantadtic interview with the President by Judge Jeanine. 

I am glad you enjoyed the rally but please explain how Trump is helping.  He lied again and he totally trashed 1/2 the country...again.  How is he being helpful and not divisive? 

Kavanaugh was not proven innocent, and it was not a hoax.   I'll never understand why it is ok for Trump to lie to you, me and everyone else constantly.  Why does that not bother you?  If I lied to you, every time I spoke to you, would you continue to listen to me?  Would you think I respected you?  People just don't lie to you and be sincere at the same time. 

Please help me with understanding this bc I just can't make sense of it. 

Thank you.

[NorCalRuss]

8 hours ago, Horsefly said:

Didn’t you say you are biracial or am I confusing you with someone else? 

Yes he is. Cool dude. Meet him 2 times for beer, pizza, DLS football. 

[HSFBfan]

14 hours ago, Blueliner said:

AP. I took it as that’s how it used to be if we like it or not. We have to own it. But.... It doesn’t have to be way going forward. I think HSFB has good intentions with that comment, but experienced unintended consequences based on the way it was described. You know I’m not a racist...hope you do at least 😊

All I said was exactly how it was. I know I'm the scapegoat for everything since people cant face the truth but thats how it was. I understand people are uncomfortable with it but it is what it is. Idk if this helps or not. I didnt even see people were commenting on the post or even had a problem with it

[Blueliner]

13 hours ago, Horsefly said:

Didn’t you say you are biracial or am I confusing you with someone else? 

Nope, you're correct. My father is from Yazoo City MS and my mother is Heidlberg ,Germany. Two people from very different parts of the world. A very interesting couple indeed. Especially back in the late 50's when they met. My father was stationed in Germany for many years.

[Horsefly]

17 minutes ago, Blueliner said:

Nope, you're correct. My father is from Yazoo City MS and my mother is Heidlberg ,Germany. Two people from very different parts of the world. A very interesting couple indeed. Especially back in the late 50's when they met. My father was stationed in Germany for many years.

You didn’t by chance serve in the Air Force in Belgium did you? 

[Blueliner]

3 hours ago, Horsefly said:

You didn’t by chance serve in the Air Force in Belgium did you? 

Negative, sir. My family lived in Germany, France (briefly), and then to CA in 1972. Been here pretty much since. 

[Belly Bob]

On 10/9/2018 at 2:49 PM, HSFBfan said:

All I said was exactly how it was. I know I'm the scapegoat for everything since people cant face the truth but thats how it was. I understand people are uncomfortable with it but it is what it is. Idk if this helps or not. I didnt even see people were commenting on the post or even had a problem with it

You and your friends might reflect a little bit on your appeals to the law and the Constitution as the final arbiter in some of the recent discussions, in the light of the fact, which you yourself recognize here, that the law and the Constitution once supported slavery and the treatment of women as second class citizens. 

[Blueliner]

10 hours ago, World Citizen said:

I am glad you enjoyed the rally but please explain how Trump is helping.  He lied again and he totally trashed 1/2 the country...again.  How is he being helpful and not divisive? 

Kavanaugh was not proven innocent, and it was not a hoax.   I'll never understand why it is ok for Trump to lie to you, me and everyone else constantly.  Why does that not bother you?  If I lied to you, every time I spoke to you, would you continue to listen to me?  Would you think I respected you?  People just don't lie to you and be sincere at the same time. 

Please help me with understanding this bc I just can't make sense of it. 

Thank you.

I empathize with your frustration, my friend. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting you, and know you’re a pleasant, rational man.

I also know that you’re convinced that Trump is this horrible person that lies 24/7. The media certainly doesn’t potray the president in any way to prove otherwise. I don’t see Trump as more or less of liar than I do pretty much any politician. A problem is for me is that media fluffs Obama’s and Hillary’s pillows, but Trump can’t fart without being chastised. If YOU lied yo me, that’d be an issue (and visa versa of course). But we’re not comparing apples to apples here. At the end if he day, if one critically looks at DJT’s presidency without (or minimal) emotion, hes delivering on promises...and in my opinion, minus the civil/political unrest and absolutely unconscionable behavior by the left, life is good. And I believe that America is going in a good direction. The left needs to settle down, be civil, and show up to vote in a 4 weeks. That’s how America works. Not block streets in Portland. And not attack bang on commuter’s cars who are just trying to get to work.

That said, President a Trump is certainly taking a victory lap following the successful defense of his SCOTUS nomination (among other things). I think that he’s entitled to it. I’m not gonna lie, I’m enjoying it myself after what I/we just witnessed.

THAT being said, after the mid terms, whatever the outcome, it’s time for him to stop attacking the left. I personally won’t support that. He needs to lead by example. AAAAAND the left needs to end this BS about impeachments, investigations, and end this civil/political unrest platform. 

[Blueliner]

19 hours ago, HSFBfan said:

All I said was exactly how it was. I know I'm the scapegoat for everything since people cant face the truth but thats how it was. I understand people are uncomfortable with it but it is what it is. Idk if this helps or not. I didnt even see people were commenting on the post or even had a problem with it

I will always have respect for your posts because you have the courage to stay true to your views, and you don’t mince words. I have a pretty close group of friends. And a couple of the reasons that we are so close is the because the aforementioned reasons. So keep on keeping it real.

[HSFBfan]

44 minutes ago, Blueliner said:

I will always have respect for your posts because you have the courage to stay true to your views, and you don’t mince words. I have a pretty close group of friends. And a couple of the reasons that we are so close is the because the aforementioned reasons. So keep on keeping it real.

I have lost many people in my life because they cant handle what I have to say. It happens. I know a few people on this board personally and I'm still friends with them. I am not going to sugarcoat the truth to make sure somebody doesnt have their feelings hurt. Our history as a country is bloody and full of issues. We in 2018 cannot put ourselves in the shoes of someone in 1776 or even 1886. Life worked for people the way it was then. People knew their roles in society. Now in 2018 what are peoples roles? Women are out in the work force and not at home causing more issues. Inner cities have a big number of crimes. Is it better than the 1980s yes it is but than look at the politicians who are rolling back those actions to help curtail crime. 

 

And as I said what I said above I ran into this article and I think this is absolutely great. 

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2018/10/civil-war-stories-1008