There is NO longer "we the people".

[zulu1128]

3 minutes ago, Sportsnut said:

2.5 million is 2.5 million.

How is that not that much?

Math is hard. 😂

[zulu1128]

1 minute ago, Sportsnut said:

For some it is.

Obviously. ✌️

[Blueliner]

31 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

Yes, the good old days, when everyone got a fair shake whether you were white or black,  straight or gay, Protestant or Catholic, a true red-blooded American or some fucking secret Communist Jew that McCarthy and his friends were hunting.

If only the Left would let us get back to to old days, when we respected the presumption of innocence in this country. 

We don’t want to “go back”, BB. People that can think critically, like I know you can, realize that those times that you’re describing werent without things we need to change or without regret. But we can only move forward WITHOUT changing the basic principles of America to “make up” for our past indiscretions. We want to move forward as Americans based on American principles laid down by our founding fathers. Those guys were pretty smart believe it or not. There are racists out there.....in ALL colors.....but the vast majority of republicans, despite being labeled so by the left with impunity, are NOT racists. The left is out of control with this nonsense. The way that they are trying to FORCE people to believe like them is driving a bigger wedge between us. 

[Blueliner]

18 minutes ago, Sportsnut said:

2.5 million is 2.5 million.

How is that not that much?

I guarantee. I guaran-effen- tee that if da beast would have LOST the pop vote by 2.5 but WON the electoral college you’d be singing a very different tune. You’re pathetic.....and racist.

[Eddyr2]

4 hours ago, RedZone said:

What a sham nation we have become!

 

 

 

I don’t think you understand how republics work. The president, senate, house and all other federal officials do not take an outh to “the people” they take an outh to the constitution.  Watch this video, it may help:

 

[Blueliner]

19 minutes ago, Sportsnut said:

For some it is.

Nothing as simplistic as 2.5 million equaling 2.5 million.

Apparently, your hooked on phonics membership is paying dividends. 

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, Blueliner said:

We don’t want to “go back”, BB. People that can think critically, like I know you can, realize that those times that you’re describing werent without things we need to change or without regret. But we can only move forward WITHOUT changing the basic principles of America to “make up” for our past indiscretions. We want to move forward as Americans based on American principles laid down by our founding fathers. Those guys were pretty smart believe it or not. There are racists out there.....in ALL colors.....but the vast majority of republicans, despite being labeled so by the left with impunity, are NOT racists. The left is out of control with this nonsense. The way that they are trying to FORCE people to believe like them is driving a bigger wedge between us. 

I hear you. I think of myself as a Jeffersonian and a Lockean. And you won't hear me calling Republicans racists. You can check the record on that. 

My point, which you may agree with, is that the Right doesn't have any moral high ground to claim here when it comes to respect for the principle that a person is innocent until proven guilty. 

I would like to say publicly, while we're on the topic, that I'm very much against the recent trend, which is all the rage on the Left these days, of reversing that principle when it comes to accusations of sexual assault. 

I think Voltaire said that it's better to let a guilty man go free than to punish an innocent man.   

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, Eddyr2 said:

I don’t think you understand how republics work. The president, senate, house and all other federal officials do not take an outh to “the people” they take an outh to the constitution.  Watch this video, it may help:

But isn't the Constitution about the people? 

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, Sportsnut said:

2.5 million is 2.5 million.

How is that not that much?

That's true, Sportsnut. I will defend you against anyone who would deny it.

But it's also less than 2 percent of the total vote. 

Many people believe, maybe not wrongly, that less than 2 percent of something isn't that much of that thing. 

[Belly Bob]

On 10/5/2018 at 2:52 PM, Nolebull813 said:

The only division is between people who love America, and want the country to thrive and succeed, and left wingers who trade crumbling all of our most important pillars of society to regain power. That's what this is about. 

Trump has shown with action that he is working hard for all legal American citizens no matter what race or background. Every move he makes is  for the betterment of this great nation. 

What the hell are you whack jobs resisting? Because he said some mean things? Jesus. 

Its always amazing to see people support the party who puts illegals over citizens. 

 

On 10/5/2018 at 4:21 PM, World Citizen said:

 

 

23 hours ago, HSFBfan said:

Considering when the constitution was written and such. Blacks weren't people. Women were 2nd class citizens and weren't considered much of anything. We fought wars with the native Americans. 

You know exactly who it was written for. The white Europeans that were here. And there is no 2 ways around it.

I think the answers to your questions, @World Citizen, are now clear.

You just redefine what America is. "America" is "American citizens who vote a certain way."

That's how the Left hates America and that's how Trump is for Americans.

And that's how Americans were united in 1776, even though black people were slaves and woman couldn't vote.

It turns out that it's actually very, very simple. 

Shockingly simple, in a way. 

[Blueliner]

14 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

That's true, Sportsnut. I will defend you against anyone who would deny it.

But it's also less than 2 percent of the total vote. 

Many people believe, maybe not wrongly, that less than 2 percent of something isn't that much of that thing. 

 Within the “margin of error”? 

[Eddyr2]

51 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

But isn't the Constitution about the people? 

no, it's about the law (the "public thing" = the law and the "public thing" is the Latin root of the word republic) that restrict the government. US Constitution does 2 things, 1) informs the "State" how it is the be formed 2) Protects the rights given to us by God. The Constitution does not give rights it only protects them. Also, in this republic the law/constitution governs "the State", not the people. The people choose the law makers but the laws still rules. We are a Nation of Laws not a Nation of Men. that's why we are a Republic and not a Democracy. 

[NorCalRuss]

6 hours ago, RedZone said:

What a sham nation we have become!

 

 

 

Was it “We the People” when you were dropping N-bombs? 

Shouldnt you be a republican? From what I hear all Republicans are racist nazis... You fit right in if that’s the case. 

[NorCalRuss]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

I hear you. I think of myself as a Jeffersonian and a Lockean. And you won't hear me calling Republicans racists. You can check the record on that. 

My point, which you may agree with, is that the Right doesn't have any moral high ground to claim here when it comes to respect for the principle that a person is innocent until proven guilty. 

I would like to say publicly, while we're on the topic, that I'm very much against the recent trend, which is all the rage on the Left these days, of reversing that principle when it comes to accusations of sexual assault. 

I think Voltaire said that it's better to let a guilty man go free than to punish an innocent man.   

The far left will make the dems lose in the next presidential election just like this last one. They will vote ( or push some to right) for a far left 3rd party candidate. I hope this trend continues...

[Belly Bob]

9 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said:

no, it's about the law (the "public thing" = the law and the "public thing" is the Latin root of the word republic) that restrict the government. US Constitution does 2 things, 1) informs the "State" how it is the be formed 2) Protects the rights given to us by God. The Constitution does not give rights it only protects them. Also, in this republic the law/constitution governs "the State", not the people. The people choose the law makers but the laws still rules. We are a Nation of Laws not a Nation of Men. that's why we are a Republic and not a Democracy. 

Well, "res publica" may well be Latin for "public thing", but I'm not sure why you're smuggling "lex" or law into the phrase. 

If the rights the Constitution protects are the rights of the people, then there isn't any disagreement between us, I don't think.

The same goes if the state governs the people.

The same goes if the laws govern the state and the people.

The same goes if the state is a proper subset of the people. 

But I wouldn't want to split hairs.

Does God give illegal immigrants rights, or just American citizens? 

[Belly Bob]

37 minutes ago, Blueliner said:

 Within the “margin of error”? 

Maybe I'm being slow, but I don't know what you mean. 

[Eddyr2]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

Well, "res publica" may well be Latin for "public thing", but I'm not sure why you're smuggling "lex" or law into the phrase.

the public thing and the law were the same thing to the romans.

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

If the rights the Constitution protects are the rights of the people, then there isn't any disagreement between us, I don't think.

the difference the the genius of the Constitution is that if the people views chance quickly they can't change the Constitution quickly.

this avoids tyranny of the majority.

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

The same goes if the state governs the people.

The same goes if the laws govern the state and the people.

The same goes if the state is a proper subset of the people. 

But I wouldn't want to split hairs.

not splitting hair. Law above Men. this avoids cults of personalities (like the last and current Prezs) from changing too much. it is also why the USA is the oldest current Government in the world.

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

Does God give illegal immigrants rights, or just American citizens? 

God gives all Men rights. But it is up to the nation they are citizens of to protect those rights. Just like it is not the USA's responsibility to protect the God given rights of foreign national in their home nation. (both my parents were immigrants to this nation, so i'm not being xenophobic, just trying to be truthful).

[Belly Bob]

2 hours ago, Eddyr2 said:

the public thing and the law were the same thing to the romans.

the difference the the genius of the Constitution is that if the people views chance quickly they can't change the Constitution quickly.

this avoids tyranny of the majority.

not splitting hair. Law above Men. this avoids cults of personalities (like the last and current Prezs) from changing too much. it is also why the USA is the oldest current Government in the world.

God gives all Men rights. But it is up to the nation they are citizens of to protect those rights. Just like it is not the USA's responsibility to protect the God given rights of foreign national in their home nation. (both my parents were immigrants to this nation, so i'm not being xenophobic, just trying to be truthful).

No, "res publica" was much, much broader than "lex" for the Romans. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that "res publica" and "lex" were synonyms for the Romans. You don't think they're synonyms in Latin, do you?

The rest I don't understand. I don't know what you mean that the law is above men. I understand that public officials are supposed to uphold the law and not blindly follow some man or group of men. Is that all you mean when you say that the Constitution is about the law and not the people?

And I'm not sure what your view has going for it, that God gave all men rights but didn't give all men the responsibility to look after all other men's rights. I would have thought that God would want all men to look after all other men's rights, not just the rights of people who by accident fell under the same political organization that they themselves fell under. 

[Blueliner]

4 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

Maybe I'm being slow, but I don't know what you mean. 

Nah. You’re not slow. It wasn’t clear as to what I meant. There aren’t too many things that are an exact science. I was just thinking that with nearly 140 million votes cast and only 2.5 mil separating the two candidates, one can argue that it was essentially a tie. Maybe not the best analogy 🤣

[Blueliner]

I was just sitting here reflecting a bit. Despite our differences at times, ALL of you guys are alright in my book. I would hope that this political onslaught that ALL of us have participated in over the past 10-20 years would make us stronger at the end of the day. In my opinion, the left just needs to relax and not be so damn angry 24/7 because they didn’t get their way. They are sabotaging the whole damn process without having a clue as to what Kavanaugh will do in he future. He’s a good man. And has life for Is REALLY gotten worse under Trump? I personally don’t think so unless you’re an illegal. We all need to stop being babies when we don’t gebour way if we want to survive as a country. THIS is a fork in the road for us. How are we going to handle it? .....

[Belly Bob]

7 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

And you can thank the Democrat Facists......They follow Rules for Radicals and are nothing more than obstructionist and anti constitution...An egregious  and evil group that will not prevail as their botched and false attempt to ruin a great man was negated..Their chief witness was without merit or credible witnesses....The letter from her boyfriend was never published as the evil press hid it....The Democrats  KNEW the whole thing was  a lie and still pushed on...When the added and useless FBI investigation failed,  the noose of payback strangled  their dirty nasty necks and chocked  the evil Lucifers of the Facist party.......

Are the Democrats supposed to be Communists or fascists? 

The cries from the Right often change from the one to the other.

And as you know, the Communists and fascists hate each other and used to kill each other in the streets in Europe and elsewhere. 

[Rufus69]

5 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

And you can thank the Democrat Facists......They follow Rules for Radicals and are nothing more than obstructionist and anti constitution...An egregious  and evil group that will not prevail as their botched and false attempt to ruin a great man was negated..Their chief witness was without merit or credible witnesses....The letter from her boyfriend was never published as the evil press hid it....The Democrats  KNEW the whole thing was  a lie and still pushed on...When the added and useless FBI investigation failed,  the noose of payback strangled  their dirty nasty necks and chocked  the evil Lucifers of the Facist party.......

 

 

You're about as full of shit as anybody I've ever seen...even on a message board.   I said from the start the confirmation was a done deal.  It didn't matter one iota what Brother Brett had done.  As soon as Trumpy The Clown uttered his name...he was confirmed.  

The worm does find a way to turn.   The DSA is about to unravel.  It's probably gonna happen within 20 years.  I doubt I'm around to see it...but...come it will.

 

 

Rufus>>

[Rufus69]

1 minute ago, Belly Bob said:

Are the Democrats supposed to be Communists or fascists? 

The cries from the Right often change from the one to the other.

And as you know, the Communists and fascists hate each other and used to kill each other in the streets in Europe and elsewhere. 

At first...I thought the guy was educated....then he started posting.....

 

 

Rufus>>

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, Blueliner said:

I was just sitting here reflecting a bit. Despite our differences at times, ALL of you guys are alright in my book. I would hope that this political onslaught that ALL of us have participated in over the past 10-20 years would make us stronger at the end of the day. In my opinion, the left just needs to relax and not be so damn angry 24/7 because they didn’t get their way. They are sabotaging the whole damn process without having a clue as to what Kavanaugh will do in he future. He’s a good man. And has life for Is REALLY gotten worse under Trump? I personally don’t think so unless you’re an illegal. We all need to stop being babies when we don’t gebour way if we want to survive as a country. THIS is a fork in the road for us. How are we going to handle it? .....

I hate to keep making the same point, but how is what the Left is doing different from what the Right has done in the past?

I don't even follow politics, but I remember the Right claiming that Obama was a secret Muslim and not even an American citizen etc.

The Right is correct about the Left and wrong about themselves, and same is true of the Left. 

And I should say that I like you also, despite any differences we may have, because you take the time to lay out your case with me, which I appreciate. 

[Belly Bob]

6 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

"Communist or Facist".......Democrats employ the best from both worlds....

I guess they're only unified in their hatred for America.